Progressive Christianity Message Board

I've recently enjoyed reading The Heart of Christianity by Marcus Borg. I think that this book is an incredibly accessible treatise on what progressive Christianity looks like. A similar book (in my opinion) coming from a more traditional background is A Generous Orthodoxy by Brian McLaren. McLaren is usually pegged as "emergent" (some would say this is "progressive Evangelical", but his ideas and Borg's ideas seem to readily flow from and into one and other. I believe Why Christianity Must Change or Die and Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, both by John Shelby Spong, were good starting points, but both those books bring up the valid shortcomings of fundamentalism without discussing practical ways of addressing the issue in everday life.

What other books seem to address progressive Christianity as a whole? I've seen many topical books, from sexuality to eschatology, but which ones touch on the broader issue of living day in and day out?

Howdy. I've been reading Jim Wallis' God's Politics. Not sure if Wallis totally counts as "Progressive" or not! But some interesting points/ideas...

I joined this group because I consider myself a religious person but am really tired of having religious = right wing nut job in the eyes of the political left! But, I know this isn't a political discussion group, but rather a book discussion group.

Having said that, I'm not sure how much I'll have to contribute. I don't have much time to read these days & I've been on a fantasy kick lately when I do find time to read.

Having said THAT, I'll also mention that a lot of this fantasy reading I've been doing also has religious themes involved. Recently re-read the entire Chronicles of Narnia series (good fantasy but not particularly progressive! I'll grant Lewis some slack because of his milieu, but seemed glaringly racist & sexist at times). Also re-read Le Guin's Earthsea Triology (more feminist, less Christian, heavily influenced by anthropological background). Am currently reading Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy. In many ways, Pullman is directly reacting to/against Lewis in terms of theology (he's been called anti-religion, but I don't believe that's a fair assessment).

OK. That's all probably more than you wanted to know. Back to John Shelby Spong!

QotJ, thanks for the post, I think it fits in great. I'd love to read some of your exapnded ideas on the possible religious themes in the possibly non-religious books you're reading. I do the same thing.

Thanks, MoRE. I've just been interested lately in the interplay of ideas in C.S. Lewis' work and in the contemporary (more secular) author Philip Pullman. I've added some more books to my library this evening, but I also wrote short reviews of The Chronicles of Narnia and His Dark Materials. There's a link to a very good New Yorker article on Pullman in the His Dark Materials review that might interest you.

I see from your profile that you have kids. In spite of my misgivings about some of the un-p.c. elements in the Narnia stories, I think they are still good engaging fantasy for kids. The Last Battle is very intense, though, so I might save that for when they're older! I would not call Lewis "progressive" by any means -- he's simply "classic" on some level, despite his faults.

Pullman is also better for slightly older kids and adults, as he can get quite intense/graphic at times. I find him more of a religious "progressive" than Lewis, although he'd probably object to that label! He has a bone to pick with organized religion and its abuses, which I find refreshing. Not that a lot of people don't have bones to pick with organized religion -- but more that he handles his bone-picking in such a creative and original way. In spite of his secular humanist tendencies, I still find spiritual elements in his work... still reading!

Cool, keep me posted. I saw his stuff at the store and wanted to read it. As for Lewis, I know his bent is more Classical than Progressive, but there's a lot there that can go either way. It seems he tends to get co-opted by various groups when he actually seems to be writing beyond their more constrictive walls.

I have a son who is almost three. No Narnia for him for a while.

I'm glad to see this group picking up new members. I'd be pleased if we would introduce ourselves. That seems to make conversation easier.

I'm Tree (yes a nickname, but one I've had for 10+ years). I'm working as a youth minister for a United Methodist church. I'm in an area where the Christian traditions lean much more towards "conservative" and "evangelical" with a tinge of "charismatic". I'm trying to wean myself from being too dependant upon describing things with simplified labels, but it helps to describe things with some context. I consider my beliefs within Christianity to be "progressive", "liberal", and possibly though not fearfully, "heretical". I believe too many extremely vocal Christians (who are quite possibly not in the majority) shout down voices of dissent or friendly opposition to the prevalent idea that Christianity is a solid unchanging structure with no division in thought amongst (so-called "true") practitioners. I believe that there's enermous amounts of room for discussion and suspension of decision (deciding not to decide on any given idea until ready or neccessary) on many topics normally considered a done deal: salvation (atonement/ransom/universal/etc), Jesus (divine/human/literal or figurative ressurection, etc), scripture (inspiration/metaphor/literal/etc), and more. I believe we are at our worst when our focus is on who's in or out, and that we are at our best when our focus is on being ones who humbly act as Jesus acted (as we are able to know him), standing up for the oppressed regardless of their beliefs/orientation/faith/etc, and living with humble, thankful, passionate hearts that seak peace, justice, and community.

Certainly there is more to me than this, such as the fact that I am a husband, father, artist, reader, writer, nature-lover, thinker, talker, and coffee-drinker, but this is a good start.

There is a fair bit about me on my profile page page for those who want to look, including that I am Quaker. I can add that I am from the liberal "unprogrammed" branch of Quakerism that has no clergy and practices silent worship.

Such Quakers also tend be politically progressive. Due to the fact that Quakers have no dogma, it is often difficult to say authoritatively what Quakers believe, but we strive to have our lives "testify" to certain principles including being honest in action and words, living plainly, eschewing violence in all forms, treating all people as equal and worthy of respect. We also tend to believe that we should not withdraw from the world and its problems but have a duty to engage the world and serve others.

Many Quakers have a strong streak of universalism, believing that all people have access to the Light of Christ and may live by the light, even if they do not recognize it as such.

Hey, quartzite, I'm also (mostly in name only at this point) a Quaker. I resonate with Quaker values and really need the experience of silent worship. However, I've been a little alienated from my Meeting recently -- big Philadelphia mtgs. sometimes seem to lose what I think of as the basic spiritual underpinings of silent worship & turn into group therapy or something....

In the past few years, I've been co-opted by a Methodist church three blocks from my house. I got interested in them because they were in danger of losing their building. What used to be a large, wealthy congregation is now a small, poor one that's unable to keep up with the needs of a large, aging building. I helped set up a non-profit to get money to help restore the building and re-vision it as a community center of sorts. The building now houses the original Methodist congregation, two Pentecostal congregations, a Mennonite group, and a synagogue! There is also a theatre group, a music series, karate lessons for kids, and office space rented to a variety of community groups. It feels like we've accomplished a lot, but it's still an on-going struggle. I spend a lot of my "spare" time writing grants. Check out
http://www.calvary-center.org/index.html if you're interested in knowing more.
I recommend the "virtual tour"!

I like the Methodist congregation because it's very diverse in terms of race, economics, age, etc. Also, I find that liberal Philadelphia Quakers are often afraid of what I call "the G-- word" and "the J---- word" and the Methodists aren't. I need to hear those words sometimes!

qotj,

Sounds like you have a good spiritual home. I know what you mean about G and J and sympathze!

Hi! FYI for anyone who might be interested, the progressive Christian journal Zion's Herald is changing its name to The Progressive Christian! Hooray! The magazine was first published in the 1820s and the name "Zion's Herald" does sound hopelessly nineteenth-century. "The Progressive Christian" is much more to the point.

I don't know how long the ZH people have been publishing in "modern" times (there was a long hiatus in there somewhere), but they came to my attention when The Other Side magazine folded a couple of years ago. The Other Side was a Philadelphia-based progressive Christian journal, and they sent their subscribers over to Zion's Herald when they had to close shop. (Progressive Christian magazines are *always* under-funded!) Now ZH has archives of The Other Side back issues available online. Check it out at:
http://www.zhonline.org/

Queenofthejungle

When I took the faith-o-matic quiz at beliefnet.com, it would always say that my beliefs are 95%-98% in line with liberal Quakers. Looks like I'm in good company, though I have to profess a level of ignorance regarding Quaker practice outside of what I know from the later seasons of HBO's "Six Feet Under"...

^_^

I understand that something like a third of people taking the quiz come out most compatible with Quakers. I guess there are a lot of Quakers out there that just don't know it ;). For a very small religion there is quite a wide range of practices, though I believe the internet is helping to bring the different strains of Quakers more together into a general exchange and sharing.

Thanks for the link to The Progressive Christian. Looks like a very interesting journal. Looks like its roots are in the Wesleyan Holiness tradition?

Gillian
liberal/progressive Anglo-Catholic "Affirming Catholicism" type stranded in the conservative deserts of Southern California

Hey!

What a relief to find this group! It looks like it's been awhile since the forum's gotten any posts, though...
I had been stalking the boards of other christian discussion groups here on LT and in the spirit of Christian unity, i'll limit myself to saying that I am glad I have found y'all! My profile has most of my info. on it, but for the lazy (and i don't blame you), i'm 20 and a 3rd yr undergrad at Hastings College in Nebraska, and I study Religion w/ Christian Ministry emphasis and Political Science. I'm also the intern for youth and technology at my local ELCA congregation. I've got a fairly ecumenical background, having been confirmed United Methodist and then doing a brief stint with a very real conversion experience in the Nazarene Church. Hastings, where I attend school, is a Presbyterian school and, as previously mentioned, i intern, worship, and am now a member of my local ELCA Lutheran congregation.

qotj, you said you were tired of having religious = right wing nut job. I think we've found a home on LibraryThing!!! Oh, and the progressive christian sounds great, I'm gonna have to look for it!

I'm currently reading practicing our faith as a capstone on my Contemporary Christian Theology course, and i'm also reading christianity for the rest of us by Diana Butler Bass for fun. In January, i'll begin a Directed Study (Not a formal class, but, well... i get credit for it) in Post-Liberal Theology, and i'll be reading (struggling through.. haha) Lindbeck, Hauerwas, and some others.

Oh! One more thing! I have to brag a little, because, well, i think y'all might understand (most people here at school just respond by saying, "huh?" ) I just got a fantastic deal at a used book sale on campus yesterday put on by the History honorary. I found institutes of the christian religion 1 & 2 by John Calvin and published by the library of Christian Classics, for 2$! I couldn't believe it. I about died. On the spot.

Oh, one more thing (again!) I'm not sure if Wallis would consider himself "progressive" either, but he's well-liked by the religion majors at my school...

Hi all...

I'm just discovering groups here and am interested in joining the conversations. I'm a pastor at an emerging church and help coordinate the Emerging Women blog and retreats. I grew up evangelical, and have found a home in the more "progressive" emerging conversation. I knew what is or isn't progressive is all a matter of perspective, but I'm interested in learning from others and expanding my perspectives. I'm currently into books byBrian McLaren andN. T. Wright.

looks like you've found the right author! I don't know much about Wright, but I've read Brian McLaren's a new kind of christian series. Loved it! The third book in the series, the last word and the word after that kept me up all night as i've been re-imagining my faith based on living this life now and it taught me about grace, not worrying about having to tally up points for the whatever comes at death, y'know? McLaren has a way of thoughtful way of writing with such depth and clarity and writing accessibly at the same time. I appreciate that, as it's something I struggle with in my undergrad classes. I once had a professor ask me who my audience was, y'know? Who was I trying to impress? Ultimately, there's so much good writing and it is in a language that is beyond christian-ese and way too deep into academentia for the average person to read. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy reading those, but there's something about accessibility that says the message is for all. Anyway, sorry for the ramble, but major kudos!

Do you have any thoughts on Wright? I don't know a thing about Wright.

Sounds like Brian McLaren's series is interesting!

Hello all --

Just joined. Former Southern Baptist (don't you all run for the door!) who has found it nearly impossible to locate a church body with any where near my blend of theological and social thought. Do not enjoy or agree with Marcus Borg, although I've only read one book. Very much enjoy and resonate with Creation Spirituality (Matthew Fox ). Have considered Quakerism but I'm not a pacifist in the true meaning of the word. I'm a political moderate -- fiscally conservative and socially conscious -- and, so, don't fit into political molds, either. It can get kind of cold and lonely with no labels to wrap around one's self in the dark of night!

*edited for touchstones

#18 pdxwoman - I'm also very interested in Creation Spirituality, and have read quite a bit of Matthew Fox. I find Thomas Berry deeper than Fox, with works such as The Dream of the Earth and The Universe Story.

Another oft-neglected element of Christian tradition which interests me a lot is the contemplative strand. Awareness by Anthony de Mello is one of my all-time favourite books.

I think this is the first time I have posted in this group, although I have been reading it for quite a while, so maybe I should introduce myself. John, from a Catholic background, working ecumenically with the church in Africa for the last 30 years.

I'll check those books out, John -- thanks

I just want to recommend Walter Wink's "The Powers That Be". This is a summary of his trilogy on the Powers and is much more accessible than those scholarly books. He provides what were to me new interpretations of well known scriptures and makes a strong case for active, non-violent resistance to oppressive forces.

Walter Wink's The Powers That Be was a great read. Although some of you may fail to see the connections at first, I urge you to read Ishmael and The Story of B by Daniel Quinn. Take some time to process what you think they may be saying. Reading his non-fiction follow-up If They Give You Lined Paper, Write Sideways may help put some things in order, but I just found it to be repetitive. Regardless, their are issues of faith that we fail to square against issues of deep ecology and population. Give the ideas in these books some thought.

I also found Walter Wink's books to be very influential in my life. I read his "Powers Trilogy" which are Naming the Powers: The Language of Power in the New Testament, Unmasking the Powers: The Invisible Forces That Determine Human Existence and Engaging the Powers: Discernment and Resistance in a World of Domination.

For sure, this is too much for the average person but I found Wink's longer analysis and development of the issue very helpful. (Later, I also read "The Powers that Be.")

I was raised in a conservative church tradition that spoke often of "spiritual warfare" and needed a serious re-alignment of my theology to conform with my new pacifist, liberal perspective.

One aspect of liberal theology that I've never liked is the tendency to soft-sell evil. Wink takes evil seriously but, in contras conservatives, focuses structural evil rather than strictly focusing on short list personal sins.