Is There A Term For This?
DiskuteraCrime, Thriller & Mystery
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1steve.clason
Is there a term for the frequent scene at the end of a thriller where the good guy, being held captive and about to be executed, demands and gets an explanation of the book's plot from the bad guy? Alternatively, where two protagonists, relaxing after their victory, narrate the fiendish plot they've just defeated, in a sort of "As you know, Bob..." denouement?
This first jumped to my notice a couple of years ago at the end of Liars & Thieves by Stephen Coonts because without the explanation the evil-plot-about-to-be-foiled could never have been understood and was mostly irrelevant to the book. Since, I've run into the technique(?) often enough that I've stayed interested because the use never helps a weak narrative and often hurts a a good one.
I'n not a huge reader in the thriller genre, so I may have discovered something everyone else already knows.
This first jumped to my notice a couple of years ago at the end of Liars & Thieves by Stephen Coonts because without the explanation the evil-plot-about-to-be-foiled could never have been understood and was mostly irrelevant to the book. Since, I've run into the technique(?) often enough that I've stayed interested because the use never helps a weak narrative and often hurts a a good one.
I'n not a huge reader in the thriller genre, so I may have discovered something everyone else already knows.
3tardis
Evil Gloating. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilGloating
Strongly warned against in the Evil Overlord List: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList
Strongly warned against in the Evil Overlord List: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilOverlordList
4AnnieMod
When this is used to allow the help for the good guys to arrive, it has a very specific name - author's inability to close his story properly :) You know - after so many books and movies (actions are even worse than thrillers about that), if I am a bad guy, I will first shoot, then explain to the dead man. :) But nope - the genius mastermind that made everyone look like idiots for most of the book, cannot stop himself/herself from boasting - and gets beaten because of that.
More seriously though - I am not sure that there is a term for that. Depending on the circumstances, it is a valid way to reconcile multiple viewpoints where we hear/see only a few of them. And in some cases it is just an infodump to ensure that readers that do not read carefully did not miss the main action, especially when it is important in a sequel.
And sometimes it is just the author wanting everyone to understand how clever his plot is - even if he did not manage to convey that in the book...
More seriously though - I am not sure that there is a term for that. Depending on the circumstances, it is a valid way to reconcile multiple viewpoints where we hear/see only a few of them. And in some cases it is just an infodump to ensure that readers that do not read carefully did not miss the main action, especially when it is important in a sequel.
And sometimes it is just the author wanting everyone to understand how clever his plot is - even if he did not manage to convey that in the book...
5Jestak
Tardis has covered what it's called when the villain does it. When the heroes do it among themselves, it may be After Action, Villain Analysis:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AfterActionVillainAnalysis
These days, TV Tropes pretty much has this sort of thing covered. :) Be warned about visiting the site too much, though--it's addictive.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AfterActionVillainAnalysis
These days, TV Tropes pretty much has this sort of thing covered. :) Be warned about visiting the site too much, though--it's addictive.
6steve.clason
<3,
72wonderY
New question, but the thread title still applies.
Genre crossovers are getting more common, as everyone seems to be writing fantasy. Jim Butcher books lean mostly to the fantasy end, but there is still crime to be solved. The Peter Grant series is much stronger in the police procedural material, but still firmly fantasy or urban fantasy. Is there a proper term for these crossovers? Does the publishing industry have a name for them?
I want a particular tag and I'm looking at:
occult detective
paranormal crime
Thoughts?
Can you give me other examples of series along these same lines?
Genre crossovers are getting more common, as everyone seems to be writing fantasy. Jim Butcher books lean mostly to the fantasy end, but there is still crime to be solved. The Peter Grant series is much stronger in the police procedural material, but still firmly fantasy or urban fantasy. Is there a proper term for these crossovers? Does the publishing industry have a name for them?
I want a particular tag and I'm looking at:
occult detective
paranormal crime
Thoughts?
Can you give me other examples of series along these same lines?
8lesmel
>7 2wonderY: wikipedia has a pretty good list of these detectives: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_science_fiction_and_fantasy_de...
ETA: The Readers' Advisory Guide to Genre Blends might be helpful
ETA: The Readers' Advisory Guide to Genre Blends might be helpful
9Scorbet
>7 2wonderY:
Paul Cornell also has series featuring a Met unit dealing with magic, starting with London Falling. But despite sounding, at least superficially, like the Peter Grant books, they are very different in tone.
Paul Cornell also has series featuring a Met unit dealing with magic, starting with London Falling. But despite sounding, at least superficially, like the Peter Grant books, they are very different in tone.
11JackieCarroll
>4 AnnieMod: I wish others would assume we can all read, understand what we read, and retain it until the end of the book because I really hate this device. I hate it even more when the author finds it necessary to throw in little facts that we weren't given along the way so the story actually makes sense.
12AnnieMod
>11 JackieCarroll:
I totally agree :) Point to something that was mentioned in passing or was implied - fine. That is a standard thing in the mystery world.
But new facts that you could not have even had thought of? Come on...
As for the infodumps - a lot of authors cater to the whole low attention span crowd - and want to make sure that they get it. I've learned not to read more books from authors that do not respect me enough to remember what happened at the start of the book (or sometimes just 50 pages earlier) consistently.
I totally agree :) Point to something that was mentioned in passing or was implied - fine. That is a standard thing in the mystery world.
But new facts that you could not have even had thought of? Come on...
As for the infodumps - a lot of authors cater to the whole low attention span crowd - and want to make sure that they get it. I've learned not to read more books from authors that do not respect me enough to remember what happened at the start of the book (or sometimes just 50 pages earlier) consistently.
13tjm568
The problem with all of our opinions on this matter is that we represent a pretty specific group. I would bet that any regular participant on this site rarely averages more than a week to finish a book, regardless of it's length. Many people out there take much longer than this to read a book. (My neighbor for example. Really smart guy, loves books and has read a lot of that we enjoy discussing together. But it takes him weeks to finish anything.) I have to believe if it takes you a month or more to finish a mystery it is harder to remember what happened at the beginning. That being said I agree with all of you.
Perhaps authors could add an optional chapter at the end of the book for those who need a wrap up. Maybe call it the "Ahhh, so that's how you pulled it off!" chapter. Or the "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids." chapter.
Perhaps authors could add an optional chapter at the end of the book for those who need a wrap up. Maybe call it the "Ahhh, so that's how you pulled it off!" chapter. Or the "And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids." chapter.
14AnnieMod
I would make the case that if you read one book per month and cannot keep the details in your head, you should read something that does not require you to remember things. :)
I've had cases where I start a mystery, put it aside and do not return for a month - I still do not need the infodump at the end. :)
I've had cases where I start a mystery, put it aside and do not return for a month - I still do not need the infodump at the end. :)
15lesmel
>13 tjm568: Kinda like the ending scenes from Clue. I think I always loved that bit the most in the entire movie.