Second Coming

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Second Coming

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1richardbsmith
Redigerat: apr 14, 2016, 10:06 pm

How do you understand the Second Coming of Christ?

If you are a Christian and are asked whether you believe in the Second Coming and you answer Yes? What do you understand that Second Coming will be?

2timspalding
apr 14, 2016, 10:52 pm

I believe little more than "he will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end." What that means, exactly, I don't pretend to know.

3hf22
Redigerat: apr 14, 2016, 11:11 pm

The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, for what it is worth:

675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.

676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism, especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.

677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.


4hf22
Redigerat: apr 14, 2016, 11:22 pm

And Pope Francis on the topic (http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20130424_udienza-generale.html), and here also on what happens after(http://w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2014/documents/papa-francesco_20141126_udienza-generale.html).

What lies ahead is the fulfillment of a transformation that in reality is already happening, beginning with the death and resurrection of Christ. Hence, it is the new creation; it is not, therefore, the annihilation of the cosmos and of everything around us, but the bringing of all things into the fullness of being, of truth and of beauty.

5timspalding
apr 14, 2016, 11:26 pm

>1 richardbsmith:

I would say this—whatever Christ's coming means, it probably doesn't mean much for us, alive. We've had—what?—30-40 lifetimes since Jesus' time. And everyone in those generations who thought he was about to arrive have been wrong. The evangelicals who point to every earthquake and war as some sort of prophetic fulfillment are a joke. Personally, I hope tens of thousands, millions or billions of years transpire before the event.

Interesting question raised there—how does the Second Coming play into our understanding of God's relationship to the universe. I find it difficult to believe ours is the only planet God with sentient life—the only one he cares about. Is the Second Coming a cosmic event, or can it happen "locally"?

6hf22
Redigerat: apr 15, 2016, 3:07 am

>5 timspalding:

it probably doesn't mean much for us, alive

It may have some implications for how we see the Christian social mission on Earth. That is, it suggests there will not be a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy. But, on the other hand, Martin Luther's possibly apocryphal "If I knew that tomorrow was the end of the world, I would plant an apple tree today" also has some validity (i.e. it seems to be a recreation, not an annihilation, of the cosmos). N.T Wright is interesting on this point, if not entirely persuasive in its entirety.

Is the Second Coming a cosmic event, or can it happen "locally"?

Biblical evidence, as taken up by the Tradition, would suggest cosmic (c/f 2 Peter 3:12-13) - (W)aiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set on fire and dissolved, and the heavenly bodies will melt as they burn! But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

7zangasta
apr 15, 2016, 5:22 am

lol

8margd
Redigerat: apr 24, 2016, 6:23 am

>5 timspalding: it probably doesn't mean much for us, alive

Except that some people welcome signs of the apocalypse and act accordingly--Middle East meltdown, Gorbachev (his birthmark = sign of the beast?), etc.

Isn't Our Lady of Fatima's secret to then-Pope and passed on to successors said to concern the end of the world? (Asking--a very pious relative thinks so.)

ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_F%C3%A1tima

9JGL53
apr 23, 2016, 9:56 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events

The last three predictions seem probable.

The rest are either crap, or will prove to be crap in the future.

Any questions?

10timspalding
apr 23, 2016, 10:07 pm

>9 JGL53:

When's the next ice-age anyway?

11JGL53
apr 23, 2016, 10:19 pm

> 10

From:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#Recent_glacial_and_interglacial_phases

"....The earth has been in an interglacial period known as the Holocene for more than 11,000 years. It was conventional wisdom that the typical interglacial period lasts about 12,000 years, but this has been called into question recently. For example, an article in Nature35 argues that the current interglacial might be most analogous to a previous interglacial that lasted 28,000 years. Predicted changes in orbital forcing suggest that the next glacial period would begin at least 50,000 years from now, even in absence of human-made global warming36 (see Milankovitch cycles). Moreover, anthropogenic forcing from increased greenhouse gases might outweigh orbital forcing for as long as intensive use of fossil fuels continues...."

In other words, due to popular demand, the next ice age has been postponed indefinitely.

12quicksiva
apr 28, 2016, 6:29 pm

Then there is this from Higgins:

I must not omit to notice a very extraordinary part of the prophecy relating to Noah and the flood. It says, Ch. lxiv. Sect. xi. ver. 1, p. 163,

"In those days Noah saw that the earth became inclined, and that destruction approached." This is a most extraordinary assertion, that the flood was caused by the disturbance of the axis of the earth, and is so totally original and unexpected that Bishop Laurence has placed it at the end of the book, because, he says, it is an evident interpolation; but he gives no reason for this, and has none, I suppose, except that he cannot give the author credit for the astronomical doctrine of the change of the earth's axis.

I look upon it as a very curious and ancient tradition respecting the cause of the flood, which has been considered to have been its real cause by many both of the ancient and modern philosophers. …

Higgins, Godfrey (2014-05-19). Anacalypsis (Kindle Locations 6008-6013). Jazzybee Verlag. Kindle Edition.