Prisoner of Azkaban chapters 9-12 discussion

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Prisoner of Azkaban chapters 9-12 discussion

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1foggidawn
nov 19, 2007, 8:57am

Good morning, Hogwarts Express! This week, we'll be discussing chapters 9-12 of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban Those chapters are:

  • Grim Defeat
  • The Marauder's Map
  • The Firebolt
  • The Patronus

  • Some interesting stuff goes on in these four chapters -- I'll be interested to hear what everyone else has to say. Anyone is welcome to join our discussion, so newbies, feel free to chime in!

    2pollysmith
    nov 19, 2007, 1:19pm

    This is where we first meet cedric diggory. He was a very nice guy

    3littlegeek
    nov 19, 2007, 2:34pm

    #2 *sigh*

    I love the Marauder's Map, but I always wondered how Fred & George could give it up. They still had 2 more years of school!

    I love the scenes with Lupin teaching Harry. In the movie it's like he got it on his second try. I've always thought it strange that Harry was so much closer to Sirius, even though Lupin was more available and more supportive. And more responsible and a real grownup--never mind.

    Sometimes old Jo is just too knowing about young people.

    4foggidawn
    nov 19, 2007, 4:00pm

    #3 -- Too true! Lupin is my favorite of the Marauders.

    These chapters introduced a lot of cool people and stuff -- Cedric Diggory, as mentioned, and the Marauder's Map, and the Patronus, and the Fidelius Charm, which is significant throughout the series.

    The Nimbus 2000 is replaced by the Firebolt -- does anyone else think that "Nimbus 2000" is a cooler name than "Firebolt"?

    And did we ever get a satisfactory explanation for how Sirius got hold of the Firebolt -- him being a fugitive, and all?

    I thought it was interesting that the boggart had the same effect on Harry that a real dementor would have -- fainting, hearing his parents, etc. Apparently the Dementor takes on more than just the physical semblance of the feared creature. When the class was having the boggart lesson with Lupin, wouldn't the boggart banshee have had an authentic effect as well? Maybe Seamus got rid of it before it could. Or maybe the dementor's effect on Harry is somehow more in Harry's head? Just trying to puzzle this out.

    5pollysmith
    nov 19, 2007, 5:25pm

    OOOOabout Sirius getting a firebolt! Could he have ordered Kreacher to do it????

    6foggidawn
    nov 19, 2007, 6:10pm

    That's a thought -- but did he have access to Grimauld Place at that point in time?

    7littlegeek
    nov 19, 2007, 7:16pm

    Doesn't it get explained in the last chapter? I forget how, but there's something in Sirius' letter to Harry, I think.

    8gpwts
    nov 19, 2007, 8:39pm

    we did get an answer about the firebolt in the final letter from Sirius, he sent crookshanks in with the mail order and with the money

    9foggidawn
    nov 19, 2007, 9:20pm

    Now I remember. I'm still a little curious that his account at Gringotts wasn't frozen or anything. But hey, it's fiction!

    10gpwts
    nov 19, 2007, 9:35pm

    also what need is there to freeze it, no one can break out of Azkaban, and as long as someone has the key they can get in. The Goblins made it extremely hard to trick them, or break into a vault, so they wouldn't have seen need to protect it from outside use

    11MrsGrinch Första inlägget
    Redigerat: nov 19, 2007, 10:09pm

    in chapter 11 the firebolt do you think that it was o.k for Hermoinie to give Professor McGonagall the firebolt?

    12foggidawn
    nov 19, 2007, 10:18pm

    Oh, good question! I think she was a bit cowardly not to tell Harry that she was going to McGonagall.

    13MrsGrinch
    nov 19, 2007, 10:24pm

    Yes she should have told harry but I think she was just looking out for him and was being a good friend....even though the broom was harmless anyway

    14littlegeek
    nov 19, 2007, 10:42pm

    It really bugged me that Hermione did that! On the one hand, I can see her doing it, on the other, she doesn't give them away at any other time in the series, even when she thinks she ought to. She respects authority, but she's really not a tattletale or a suckup. I would have liked it Jo had found another way to get the broom away from Harry for a while.

    15foggidawn
    nov 19, 2007, 11:14pm

    I definitely think that McGonagall and company were right in taking the broom -- after all, look what happened to Katie in Book 6, just from touching a cursed item -- there are obviously some nasty hexes out there. But I agree, LG, that it would have been better if McGonagall had found out in some other way.

    16littlegeek
    nov 19, 2007, 11:19pm

    Here's some more stuff I wrote in the margins of these chapters:

    Ron is always cussing. (JKR never writes the words, of course, just Hermione reacting to them!)

    Why did Sirius stick around long enough to get captured and sent to Azkaban? Couldn't he have gotten away?

    Why doesn't Snape know about Pettigrew being a traitor? Or for that matter, Lucius Malfoy? They were highly placed Death Eaters....wouldn't they have seen Peter around?

    I still think Dementors are the scariest things in the Potterverse. Just the idea of having your soul sucked out...yuck.

    This is slightly off topic, but doesn't anyone think it's weird that in PoA the ability to produce a patronus is supposed to be a rare gift, and by OotP everyone is doing it?

    17MrsGrinch
    nov 19, 2007, 11:22pm

    Yes but in OotP the ever so brilliant teacher Harry helps the DA produce patronus'.

    18littlegeek
    nov 19, 2007, 11:26pm

    Yes, but all the Order members can do it, too. They use them for communication. In PoA, Lupin makes it seem like hardly anyone can do it at all.

    19MrsGrinch
    nov 19, 2007, 11:33pm

    I think Lupin was trying to just let Harry know that it is hard and was not going to get it on the first time.

    20foggidawn
    nov 19, 2007, 11:37pm

    Responding to post #16:

    Yes, Ron is always cussing -- in the later books JRK lets him cuss outright, rather than just showing Hermione's reaction. I caught a "damn" somewhere in these chapters, and was wondering if that's the first instance of mild swearing in the series.

    Maybe Sirius thought he'd be able to explain what happened? From the description of it, it sounds like he was a little hysterical at the time, or something. I'm sure he felt guilty because he had "let" James make Pettigrew the Secret-Keeper.

    If Pettigrew was only reporting to Voldy, the other DE's might not have seen him. Voldy was the secretive type, and wouldn't have wanted the DE's to have any more info than they actually needed. At least, that's how I explain it in my own head. I also don't think that Voldy truly and completely trusted anyone -- not Snape, not Lucius, not Bellatrix. He was supremely interested in his own wellbeing, and so assumed that everyone else was, as well.

    Agreed about the Dementors. *shudder*

    You do kind of get the feeling that Harry and the members of the DA were a bit more talented than the common run, don't you? But I think that MrsG has it basically right -- Harry was able to do the Patronus charm because Lupin was willing to give him a lot of private lesson time, and the members of the DA were able to do it because Harry was, in turn, spending a lot of time teaching them how. I'm wondering if the Patronus charm is not usually taught at school? Maybe it's something you learn in your on-the-job training, as needed (for example, when Aurors are trained, they would have to learn it).

    21MrsGrinch
    nov 19, 2007, 11:43pm

    I have a patronus question why is Hermionies an otter?

    22pollysmith
    nov 20, 2007, 8:41am

    No idea! Unless its because she's always busy like an otter?

    I think the patronus charm is something you have to want to do and be confident in your ability to do it, same as the animagus charm, you had to really want to do it

    23MrsGrinch
    nov 20, 2007, 11:37am

    Are otters smart?

    16> Anyway about the dementors they are one of the most frightening things i have ever heard of, but what about inferi those have to be at least tied with dementors.

    24pollysmith
    nov 20, 2007, 6:27pm

    slimey dead peaple grabbing at you, yes I'd say they tie!

    25gpwts
    nov 20, 2007, 7:12pm

    *shudder*
    NO other words needed

    26pollysmith
    nov 21, 2007, 2:53pm

    about the mauraders map: why would fred and george give it up?
    I think because they had so many other ways to get around, and they wanted to cheer up Harry. The map is a truely amazing item, Imagine being able to know where anyone in the castle was at any time. and don't forget that the map also gave hints on how to get into the witchs hump. i wonder what else it could do.

    27littlegeek
    nov 21, 2007, 3:12pm

    It's the part about showing where everyone is in the castle that's the irreplaceable part. That's giving up a lot! It's one thing to know where the exits are, but another to know whether Snape or Filch is about to come around the corner!

    28foggidawn
    nov 21, 2007, 3:14pm

    I do think it was a big sacrifice for them, but nice of them to pass it along!

    29pollysmith
    nov 21, 2007, 3:21pm

    maybe they just liked the thrill of not getting caught?

    30MrsGrinch
    nov 21, 2007, 5:40pm

    I think they thought harry needed it more than they did.

    31Marensr
    nov 21, 2007, 7:27pm

    I think Hermione telling McGonagall accentuates the differences that still exist between her and Harry and Ron she's always more rule-abiding.

    The Marauder's map is interesting because it is a bit of a frozen version of Harry's father and his friends- how odd would it be for most of us to have a bit of our parents at that age.

    I think the reason this book is my favorite is that the real enemy is not Voldemort- It is fear and and living with the past. The struggle for Harry against the dementors is about overcoming great hurt and I think that is a more profound story than fighting the ultimate evil guy.

    It may be because I just rewatched the movie recently I noticed how much Harry relies on his friends in the book. In the movie the scene are often alter to further isolate Harry and highlight his struggle. I also noticed line reassignments it was kind of interesting from a screenwriting/adaptation point of view as well.

    32foggidawn
    nov 21, 2007, 8:10pm

    I felt like the third and fourth movies were the two that strayed farthest from the books. Good point about how Harry relies on his friends, particularly in this book!

    33Marensr
    nov 21, 2007, 9:32pm

    I agree foggi, at the same time I love the cinematography of the third movie. I think Cuaron had the most magical eye. I like the color palette and the introduction of the giant clock and the standing stones.

    34MrsGrinch
    nov 22, 2007, 10:31am

    After reading DH I can't watch the movies it makes me to sad

    35foggidawn
    nov 25, 2007, 5:55pm

    Don't forget!

    Discussion of chapters 13-16 starts tomorrow!

    See you all there!