New Series System: Calls for Help! #2

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New Series System: Calls for Help! #2

1gilroy
Redigerat: sep 19, 2020, 1:04 pm

Continued from last working thread.

This is a place where someone can post a link to the series in question and ask for help.

2gilroy
sep 19, 2020, 1:04 pm

Continued from last working thread.

3amanda4242
sep 19, 2020, 3:05 pm

Thanks for starting a new thread!

4gabriel
sep 19, 2020, 11:56 pm

Continuing the discussion about series that have been published in a different order in translation, I found this note from Tim in his blog post announcing the new Series system: "Separate series should only be maintained if there is a difference between the series so great that combining them would mislead. This is one of those things we’ll have to hash out as a community."

That's a very high standard for having separate series. And with respect to the foreign-language Asterix series, rather than clarify, they actually mislead: they leave out works that are indisputably part of the series merely because they have not been published in that language.

5gilroy
sep 20, 2020, 7:17 am

After that was posted, it was also decided that we are NOT combining the Chronological and Publication order series at this time. There's been a lot of changes since the initial release.

6gabriel
Redigerat: sep 20, 2020, 10:33 am

>5 gilroy:

Nobody here is disputing the chronological/publication order exception, but it is an exception to a general rule. When the idea of creating another exception to keep different language series was raised, it was quickly dismissed.

7gabriel
sep 22, 2020, 5:01 pm

With no one suggesting that in light of OUP not listing an "Oxford Histories" series, that it is nonetheless a series, I'm going to go ahead and remove it.

On the Asterix question, Maddz suggested moving the foreign-language translations to publisher series as a compromise. I'm willing to do so, at least on an interim basis. Amanda was concerned that the relationships would disappear if that was done, but it seems that the relationship persists if it is created when they are both series. With that concern at least partially addressed, I'm going to switch them over to publisher series.

8Littlemissbashful
Redigerat: sep 22, 2020, 10:48 pm

I am not sure if this is the right place to ask but I have come accross a series which seems to be split over to identically named series and I cannot figure out to combine the two using the new system.

I thought perhaps I could just relabel one set to add it to the other and then remove the redundant series label but I have just ended up with one of the books now showing in both versions on the series.

I am confused and would like to know how to deal with this issue when it crops up please?

Big Lake Mysteries
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/83212/Big-Lake-Mysteries

Big Lake Mysteries
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/66811/Big-Lake-Mysteries

https://www.librarything.com/work/15393802

9parlerodermime
sep 22, 2020, 11:00 pm

>8 Littlemissbashful: amanda4242 just combined them for you.

10Littlemissbashful
Redigerat: sep 22, 2020, 11:07 pm

>9 parlerodermime: Many thanks, although I would love to learn how it's done?

11amanda4242
sep 22, 2020, 11:07 pm

>8 Littlemissbashful: Done! In cases where there are overlapping works, all you have to do is go Relationships/Combine in the Edit Series menu and select the series you want to combine with; if there are no overlapping works, you'll have to first search for the series using the Add Relationship button (ignore the text that says search for related publishers series).

12Littlemissbashful
sep 22, 2020, 11:13 pm

>11 amanda4242: Thank you!

I did spot a relationship/combine option but couldn't see how it worked but I think I've seen the bit I missed earlier (so fingers crossed next time I come accross it I can hopefully figure it out)

13parlerodermime
sep 22, 2020, 11:27 pm

On this topic, does there happen to be a best practices for combining series codified anywhere? e.g., which should be combined into which? Does it matter? (Do translated series titles get combined together regardless of which is combined into which, or if the wrong one is combined, do they get stranded at the page that says "this series has been combined into __ series"?)

Note: I'm actually asking the question in parentheses, but if it doesn't exist, I can also take a whack at drafting it.

14amanda4242
Redigerat: sep 23, 2020, 12:32 am

>13 parlerodermime: Short answer: it doesn't really matter which way you combine series.

Long answer: choose your direction wisely since only the labels for the series you're combining into are retained. As far as I know, all titles, descriptions, etc. from a combined series will show up on the page it's been combined into; you may have to go in and adjust language settings, but everything (except labels) should be there.

It's no problem to de-archive a series if you make a mistake, but it's a tedious business removing the erroneous information from the series it was combined into.

15spiphany
sep 23, 2020, 1:53 am

>4 gabriel:
For the vast majority of series, it indeed makes sense to put all language versions under a single series in the new system -- because there are no significant differences other than the name.
However, in a small percentage of series, there are differences across language versions. I want to reiterate that this is NOT merely a situation where a series has only been partially translated in a particular language. Solzhenitsyn's Red Wheel which you mentioned several times in the previous thread is not in any way a relevant comparison in this sense, because there is no debate about the series order.

But for some series, there may be no "logical" reading order, and a foreign publisher decides to publish -- and number -- the individual titles in an order that is neither the original publication order nor the internal chronology. I see this as very much analogous with the competing Narnia numberings because these (in your opinion) "irrelevant" numberings are likely to be very real to the readers of that language: they will use the numbers that appear on their copies of the book to determine which books they have or haven't read, or to determine which ones are missing from their collection. If they are a multilingual reader or collector, including separate listings will help them figure out that, say, Italian book 4 corresponds to Chinese book 10 rather than Chinese book 4.

Another, related issue is the fact that sometimes a series will be "bundled" differently for publication in a different language: for example, individual titles may be combined or split into two (or appear as three volumes in one language, but two in another, etc.). In some cases this can be handled using the "grouping" function on the series page, but for more extensive or complex groupings it may be clearer for the user to create separate series entries.

I don't think it's helpful to either eliminate relevant series information or make series pages so confusing as to be unusable, merely in order to reduce clutter on book entries or in users' series listings.

>7 gabriel:
Sorry, I don't think changing the foreign language Asterix series to publisher series is a good solution. Using that argument, virtually all alternative numberings or groupings of a series would be considered "publisher series" and the distinction between series types ceases to be meaningful.

Also please note that while the Asterix series page may still continue to recognize relationships to series that have been converted to publisher series, the converse is NOT true -- from the publisher series only links to other overlapping publisher series are shown.

16gabriel
Redigerat: sep 23, 2020, 4:14 pm

>15 spiphany:

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

One thing I want to draw out is that there doesn't seem to be anyone defending translated "series" which aren't renumbered. Perhaps you or others can clarify if I'm wrong - but it seems to me that the concern is not translated publication orders per se, but alternate numberings. That narrows the scope of this discussion considerably.

My point when citing The Red Wheel to suggest that a series includes all the books of that series, regardless of whether they are available in a given language. I'm glad this seems to be uncontroversial. So an Asterix "series" that includes only the titles available (and renumbered) in Finnish or whatever language is an incomplete series. This is where part of my concern comes from - as series, these are misleading because they omit volumes that are clearly part of the series. As a note, this isn't a problem with publisher series, since by definition they are works collectively marketed by a publisher - the absence of unavailable volumes reflects the actual content of the publisher series. And while I'm not a fan of using publisher series in this way, I think these foreign-language publications do meet the established definition of a publisher series - but I do agree that it undermines the distinction between series types.

So, let's discuss where series have been translated and renumbered. My primary argument is that these don't fit the "chronological order/publication order" exception to the general rule for a single series. What we really are discussing is whether to create another exception. So let's have that discussion.

My preference for regroupings or bundlings of series would be to keep it within the main series. If it becomes truly unwieldy, perhaps the best solution is to create a dedicated group for that regrouping within the series?

I agree that the owners of such volumes may well find a value in a numbering that reflects that of the books they own, but that doesn't necessarily mean that LT series needs to be that source. While ordinary publication/chronological orders will be relevant to all or at least most users, a renumbered translation will generally be relevant only to a smaller number of users (Finnish-readers, for example); but the costs in terms of "clutter" are borne by all. But more importantly, both publication order and chronological order correspond to real factors that will influence how people may want to read the books - publication order generally reflects the order in which the author wrote the books, with all the stylistic & thematic development that often accompanies that; internal chronology has an obvious importance as well. But, if a series is renumbered for the convenience of the publisher (perhaps because there is no "logical" reading order, as you put it), then necessarily that order is of lesser significance - it corresponds to nothing significant within the works themselves, but is essentially arbitrary. I'm also concerned that publishers may change the numbering of their translated works as they publish additional volumes, or that you could end up with competing numberings in a single language from different publishers (we have two Welsh-language Asterix publisher series - I don't know if either were numbered). So I think the balance of convenience is decidedly against creating an additional exception for translated renumberings.

With respect to the lack of reciprocal relationships between series and publisher series, I did recognise that it was an imperfect and partial solution to the concern raised.

My apologies for the length of this.

17amanda4242
sep 23, 2020, 4:21 pm

The Asterix conversation should really be moved to the best practices thread.

18amanda4242
okt 28, 2020, 7:59 pm

Zamonia needs help from someone who can figure out the German titles.

19ScarletBea
okt 29, 2020, 3:56 am

I got Rhyanna Pratchett's Crystal of Storms, my first ever Fighting Fantasy book, and when I went to see the series' other books, the numbering and order is VERY different from what's written in the actual book (there's a numbered list in the first page).

Can anyone help?

20andyl
Redigerat: okt 29, 2020, 9:18 am

>19 ScarletBea:

Fighting Fantasy is tough. There are the original gamebooks from the 80s. There are the modern gamebooks published by Scholastic. There is the RPG and associated supplements. There are the related novels. There is even a related magazine.

Maybe the RPG and the novels and the magazine ought to be moved into their own series and a series-relationship set.

As to the Rhianna Pratchett Crystal of Storms this is another one of those published by Scholastic (and is number 17 in their publisher series).

The following page details the Scholastic series Fighting Fantasy Fandom Wiki and as you can see it is a mix of old (with different numbers) and new books.

If you follow the link to the Wizard books on the previous link you will also find the situation is just the same for the Wizard published gamebooks.

Edited - to fix broken url

21Maddz
okt 29, 2020, 8:46 am

23spiphany
okt 30, 2020, 2:20 am

>18 amanda4242:, >22 birder4106:
I worked on the Zamonia books. I've kept the sorting based on publication order as well as the numbers, but I'm not sure how much sense it makes to assign numbers at all, since most of the books (with the exception of "City of Dreaming Books" and its two sequels) are standalone and there's no obvious internal chronology or reading order. The series resembles Pratchett's Discworld in that the books are all set in the same universe but are there are various settings and groups of characters within that universe. I don't think I've ever seen any numbers listed on the books themselves.

Some of the confusion may result from the fact that there are two books which have been announced and catalogued by a few users, but haven't in fact been published yet. I've indicated this accordingly.

24AndreasJ
Redigerat: nov 1, 2020, 3:25 am

If you click on "Relationships/Combine" on a series page, you get the option to set up a relationship, but not to combine series. Am I missing something?

I was looking to combine Heere & Waffen and Zeughaus Verlag Heere & Waffen into a single series.

25AndreasJ
Redigerat: nov 1, 2020, 3:28 am

Somewhy I can't get the 2nd touchstone to stick. The link to the series page is:
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/233820/Zeughaus-Verlag-Heere-und-Waffen

26spiphany
nov 1, 2020, 4:58 am

>24 AndreasJ: I believe the option to combine only exists when both series are of the same type (publisher or regular series) and when there are titles that overlap. Since the "Zeughaus Verlag" series currently only has a single title in it, it may be simplest to add that title to "Heere & Waffen", then remove it from "Zeughaus Verlag" and delete the extra series.

27AndreasJ
nov 2, 2020, 12:29 am

>26 spiphany:

Thanks. I've followed your suggestion.

28aspirit
nov 2, 2020, 6:01 pm

From a glance at descriptions, the Polity Universe appears to have multiple publication orders as the primary view, but the reason isn't explained. (I might've missed an explanation that's there.)

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/2066/Polity-Universe

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/6018/Polity-Universe-Publication-Order

Sidenote: The settings also haven't been updated for the new series system.

29gabriel
nov 2, 2020, 6:21 pm

>28 aspirit:

That first series appears to be sorted alphabetically. I don't see anything to think they aren't safe to be combined, or the first one just deleted.

There is also a partial series which might be in chronological order:
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/4531/Polity-Universe

And then there's a series which appears to be just those books of the series that feature a certain character. I don't know enough to say whether it's a genuine sub-series:

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/3155/Polity-Ian-Cormac

30aspirit
nov 2, 2020, 8:40 pm

>29 gabriel: That's enough confirmation for me! I've combined the series that were supposed to be reordered by publication date, and I've updated the newly combined series settings.

Unfamiliar subseries are too much to handle well on a phone, IMO, so I'm leaving those for the more knowledgeable and/or better equipped.

31andyl
nov 3, 2020, 2:51 am

>28 aspirit:

There are some errors in it. Shell Game was a 2009 published short story (in The New Space Opera 2)
ISTR that The Engineer ReConditioned has a fair few non Polity Universe stories in it.

32gilroy
nov 17, 2020, 3:36 pm

These three publisher series all look like they are the same, but just variations on capitalization. However, I admit that any language outside of English and rough un poco Spanish and I get lost:
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/290611/Action-artistique-de-la-Ville-de-Par...
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/301891/Action-artistique-de-la-ville-de-Par...
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/285465/Action-Artistique-de-la-Ville-de-Par...

Then I come across these and they look like the same works but as a regular series?
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/149446/Paris-et-son-patrimoine-Action-artis...
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/160618/Paris-et-son-patrimoine-Action-Artis...

33gilroy
nov 29, 2020, 9:19 am

34origamistudio
dec 10, 2020, 7:06 am

Detta konto har stängts av för spammande.

35CDVicarage
dec 16, 2020, 2:21 pm

Yesterday I noticed that four series that I have books in had been deleted and when I investigated I notice that Member MauraRoseFletcher had deleted them all and a great many others. I could see no reason for the deletion of the four that I have including Peter Rabbit (which I restored) and when I looked at the log many more series had been deleted or edited in a very short time. Is this right?

36al.vick
dec 16, 2020, 2:33 pm

I certainly don't see anything wrong with the Peter Rabbit series, so I don't know why someone would have deleted it. Sounds like someone should investigate. You could PM the member and the LT staff.

37gilroy
Redigerat: dec 16, 2020, 4:52 pm

At least undeleting is a much easier task than it used to be.
I'm wondering if this is a misunderstanding of how LT works, or just plain ignorance.

Further digging shows they're also removing all non-english language names attached to series.
Do we give them a comment to ask WTF?

38SandraArdnas
dec 16, 2020, 6:06 pm

>37 gilroy: Please do, there are hundreds of deletions it seems

39gilroy
dec 20, 2020, 7:22 am

I forgot to note here that I sent a message to the user in question the day of the original discussion. As of now, I've still heard nothing back.

That being said, I've been checking and trying to restore some of the bigger and valid series.

40abbottthomas
dec 20, 2020, 7:31 am

My bank has a daily limit on on-line transfers, regardless of the state of my balance. Maybe LT should do something similar with deletions. I can't see why anyone would need to delete a whole bunch of series - or am I missing something?

41aspirit
dec 20, 2020, 10:13 am

I can imagine a large number of "deletions" while going through series that need to be combined. The new series system makes comparing duplicate lists easier.

Otherwise, no, I don't see why this would happen.

Has anyone alerted the LT team yet?

42gilroy
dec 20, 2020, 3:09 pm

I did browse the user's library and came to a thought that they maybe don't have the books that belong to a particular series and thought deleting them would only affect their books, not site wide.

My undelete moves are slow right now, though.

43SandraArdnas
dec 20, 2020, 3:12 pm

>42 gilroy: Perhaps the staff have a way of undeleting the entire batch

44Maddz
Redigerat: dec 29, 2020, 7:29 am

Does anybody feel up to helping out with The Adventures of Luther Arkwright? Especially with the collections? I've done some work separating out the various versions of Book 1 (Rat Trap) from the complete collection, but am still seeing stray covers which are almost certainly associated with the editions with no ISBN recorded.

The various works are:
ISBN 090786502X which is Book 1: Rat Trap, and collects issues 1-4 (https://www.librarything.com/work/25882241)

ISBN 1870923006 which is Book 2: Transfiguration, and collects issues 5-7 (https://www.librarything.com/work/1770941)

ISBN 0907865038 which is Book 3: Götterdämmerung, and collects issues 8-9 (https://www.librarything.com/work/1391556)

ISBN 1593077254 which is the complete series (Dark Horse 2nd edition), collecting issues 1-9 (https://www.librarything.com/work/12147107/summary)
(The 1st edition is ISBN 10: 1569712557 / ISBN 13: 9781569712559.)

We also have this work: https://www.librarything.com/work/242161/editions which includes the following ISBNs:
ISBN 1569712557 (English) - Dark Horse 1st edition
ISBN 1621151670 (English) - ?
ISBN 2952316961 (French)
ISBN 9515820030 (Finnish?)
ISBN 8586932299 (Spanish?)
ISBN 8086839052 (?)
There is a stray cover associated with Book 1 in the member covers (almost certainly one of the editions with no ISBN), and an Amazon cover which is the audio drama.

I am also unclear which of the individual issues the translations collect; if anyone is familiar with them, please advise.

The audio drama is mostly ISBN 1844351262, with ISBN 1844351270 (https://www.librarything.com/work/20651621/editions)

There is also Arkwright Integral: (ISBN-10 : 9781616553876 / ISBN-13 : 978-1616553876) which collects The Adventures of Luther Arkwright and The Legacy of Luther Arkwright: Heart of Empire, and Bryan Talbot's Luther Arkwright (ISBN-10 : 1506717713 / ISBN-13 : 978-1506717715) which also collects both series.

I would be ever so grateful if someone could take over - I really need to get to bed - and I can continue in the morning, when I can finish logging my individual Valkyrie issues and the collections.

Basically, ISBN 1569712557 needs splitting out of work 242161 and combining into work 12147107, and any edition with the covers associated with 25882241 needs splitting from work 242161 and combining into the correct work. ISBN 1621151670 I'm only picking up on pirate sites, so goodness knows what it's meant to be.

UPDATE: ISBN 1621151670 is the ebook version which isn't available in the UK stores - no wonder my searches didn't find a legitimate version. So it looks like all that needs to be done is to split out the editions with no ISBN from work 242161, check the covers, and combine into the appropriate work associated with the cover. Then the 2 collections 1-9 can be merged into a single work (I'll assume the translated versions are all Collected 1-9).

I'll have a go after lunch.

45jjwilson61
dec 29, 2020, 8:39 am

Does the community here really support using covers as a way to distinguish between editions? There could be lots of users who enter their books and don't bother to make sure that the covers match. When I enter library books I've read I don't usually do that.

46Maddz
Redigerat: dec 29, 2020, 10:17 am

>45 jjwilson61: Absent any other information, that's going to be the only way to work out which edition is which. If it's wrong, then the onus is on the user to correct their data - we can't correct it for them. Comic geeks would tend to have fairly accurate information though (I wouldn't call myself a comic geek, but I worked in a comics store some 30-plus years ago and used to help with the mail-order catalogue). I recall buying the Valkyrie issues on my staff discount.

The Adventures of Luther Arkwright is fairly complex as indie series go; the original 9-issue mini-series published by Valkyrie in the UK was re-printed by Dark Horse in the US with new covers. Between the printings, Valkyrie collected their mini-series into 3 graphic novels, and produced a couple of stand-alones. Dark Horse also produced a single graphic novel collecting all 9 issues. Subsequently, the 2nd 9-issue mini-series (Heart of Empire) was published by Dark Horse, and again was collected into a single graphic novel. Both graphic novels seem to have had hardback (collectors editions) and paperback editions. The graphic novels for both series were collected into a complete graphic novel; that also appears to have a paperback, and a collectors hardback edition (Integral). There are also at least 3 translated versions.

I'm dreading cataloguing my Sandman collection. At least I never collected superhero comics...

47r.orrison
dec 29, 2020, 10:30 am

>46 Maddz:
I will use Title and Author over other considerations, ISBN if title is ambiguous, and maybe cover if it helps.

Specifically, I would separate the edition named "Book One" from https://www.librarything.com/work/12147107/editions and combine it with https://www.librarything.com/work/25882241 regardless of ISBN or cover.

48Maddz
dec 29, 2020, 10:36 am

It turns out the Finnish translation of the collected work uses the same cover image as the cover of the Dark Horse comic book version of Issue #1. The main difference is that the circular Dark Horse logo is replaced by the Finnish Book House logo in the top left corner.

As it happens, I only needed to split out 1 edition to remove the Valkyrie cover (2 copies). Apart from the 2 dodgy Amazon covers (one of which is the cover for the audio dramatisation), the rest seem to hang together, so I'm inclined to leave it alone for now. It's quite likely some of the translations use Book 1.

49Maddz
dec 29, 2020, 5:20 pm

Oh lordy, there's another mess in The Sandman Presents.

I've just started logging in that series, and immediately picked up on The Dead Boy Detectives - the trade paperbacks are mixed in with the individual issues.

My head aches...

50amanda4242
Redigerat: dec 29, 2020, 5:49 pm

>49 Maddz: What's wrong with The Sandman Presents series, other than a need for a consistent labeling method? Outside of your issues of The Deadboy Detectives being incorrectly combined with the collection, I only found one other collection that had a couple of issue incorrectly combined with it.

51MarthaJeanne
Redigerat: dec 29, 2020, 5:56 pm

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/189356/Museum-des-20-Jahrhunderts-Kataloge-...

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/150478/Kataloge-der-Sonderausstellungen-des...

Have the same contents and the names are just a different order of the various words.

I think I figured the combining out.

52Maddz
dec 29, 2020, 6:00 pm

>50 amanda4242: It's The Dead Boy Detectives... I've split out my issues from the TPB, but it looks like there may be a stray copy of Issue #3 lurking in the copies with no ISBN (going by available covers). I've also added the work-to-work relationships to the TPB.

Anyway, I'm packing it in for the night, and I'll continue working my way through that collection in the morning.

I'm more than happy to have the labelling made consistent!

Did we ever get a consensus on how to handle comic book series with trade paperback editions? My gut feeling is that the issues should be Core, and the trades should be Collections & Selections, because the issues almost invariably are published first. However, I've seen both ways.

53amanda4242
dec 29, 2020, 6:31 pm

>52 Maddz: Did we ever get a consensus on how to handle comic book series with trade paperback editions?

Mostly it's whatever works best for the specific series with a dash of whatever the person doing the organizing feels like doing. My preference is also for issues being the core for several reasons: collections don't always collect every issue, popular titles can have several different editions of collections which are organized differently (see Lucifer), and putting the issues as the core means all of the cover art is displayed. Of course if only a couple of issues of a title have been catalogued but a dozen collections have been, I'll most likely set the collections as the core.

54Maddz
dec 30, 2020, 6:29 am

>53 amanda4242: I've tidied up The Sandman Presents, moving the individual issues to the Core group, and the collected issues to the Collections & Selections group. I've also rationalised the numbering. I added in some of the missing issues which where part of their own series.

I've also deleted out the non-Sandman Presents titles - the various Endless titles should be part of The Sandman as related mini-series, or specials. There's something to be said for creating a Sandman Universe meta-series collecting everything under one label.

The 2 Children's Crusade titles aren't strictly part of the series either; again, I've removed them; they may be part of The Sandman - I'll have to check (don't you hate cross-overs). It's certainly part of The Books of Magic.

Fingers crossed, it's now looking good.

55jasbro
Redigerat: dec 30, 2020, 11:27 am

>52 Maddz:, >53 amanda4242:: I'm unsure whether I understand the issue posed by individual titles, regrouped or separated for alternative marketing and distribution. Doesn't "Collections & Selections" by definition reflect those works?

On using covers to distinguish among works or editions, I concur with - and regularly apply - the priorities commended above:
  • First, information we glean from titles, recognizing that a difference in authors often suggests different works are mixed.
  • Second, ISBN.
  • A distant third, occasionally, cover images for a discrete, fully separated record that has a counterpart clearly indicated by cover, but which is otherwise indistinguishable.
More often than not, I find that most cover discrepancies sort themselves out pretty quickly by separating and recalculating covers; other times (also fairly often), some clearly inapplicable cover images simply hang on, waiting for us to flag them as such. I'd be glad if these points are helpful insight to anyone watching, and I'm eager to know (a) what else y'all find helpful for separating/combining distinctions, and (b) if we should request, formalize or post such principles elsewhere on LibraryThing.

Happy New Year, everyone!

ETA: >54 Maddz: Love this - thank you! I've long been curious about The Sandman Series, but never able to get my head around it. Maybe now I'll get a notion of where to begin ...

56Maddz
dec 30, 2020, 12:02 pm

>55 jasbro: I think the main problem with comic book series is that in many cases the collected editions were catalogued first, and are deemed the core of the series. This would make sense in that libraries would purchase the collections not the individual issues. It's only comic geeks that would collect both (or, in my case, I used to work in a comic shop and had a staff discount so mostly had the issues).

As >53 amanda4242: points out, collections don't always collect every issue, and don't always collect in order.

In terms of The Sandman, I'd start with the first collection Preludes and Nocturnes (https://www.librarything.com/work/9347622 - I can't get the touchstone to work). I wouldn't start with The Sandman Presents - that's really mini-series and one-offs featuring non-core characters and crosses over into Hellblazer and Lucifer. You should be able to pick them up in Kindle or Comixology (the latter is only readable via an app).

Happy reading!

57Maddz
Redigerat: jan 16, 2021, 9:36 am

Does anyone want to have a go at Matt Wagner's various Mage series? I've been trying to sort out Mage: The Hero Discovered, and am running into problems as I think there are a number of bad combinations.

What there should be:

15 core individual issues, of which I've managed to find and add Chapter 1. The rest need tracking down and adding (I have issues 9-15 to log - we have Magebook Vol 1 and Vol 2 (chapters 1-4 and 5-8 respectively).
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mage-the-hero-discovered/4050-3421/?sortBy=asc

The 2 Magebook collections published by Comico from 1985
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/magebook/4050-3557/

The 3 Starblaze graphics trade paperbacks from 1987

8 double issues published by Image from 1998 collecting 2 chapters at a time (vol 8 is only Chapter 15).

The Image omnibuses from 2017; 6 in total, 2 per Mage series.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mage/4050-102765/?sortBy=asc

I've been looking at the editions page for the various collections, and I think there are some bad combinations going by the cover images associated with that work.

Wikipedia has the ISBNs here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage_(comics)
https://www.comics.org/issue/38106/

It doesn't help the collections resetting to core every time you add to or edit a series...

I will try and add the rest of the issues to the series, and add the work relationships, but it would be helpful if somebody could do the splitting and combining.

Then there will be the other 2 series - Mage: The Hero Defined and Mage: The Hero Denied...

58scott_beeler
jan 16, 2021, 5:14 pm

>57 Maddz: I have edited the Mage series and work pages previously and had them in good shape at the time (don't remember how long ago that was). I could have another go at it once I finish up some other work.

...speaking of which, and your comment that "It doesn't help the collections resetting to core every time you add to or edit a series..." what is going on with that? I just noticed it now when I added something to The Walking Dead series and suddenly all the categories were gone -- I was coming here to ask about it. Surely this is a bug that can be a major pain! There are about 300 works on that page, previously divided into 8 or so different categories. Can that be reverted to the old information? Re-setting all 300 by hand is not something I would prefer to have to do.
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/682/The-Walking-Dead

59Maddz
jan 16, 2021, 6:20 pm

>58 scott_beeler: I reported that problem 4 days ago: https://www.librarything.com/topic/328666#n7389095. It has been confirmed, but obviously not being worked on yet.
It's why I've largely stopped work on editing comic book series - I was in the process of adding the Bill Willingham's Fables trade paperbacks into the Fables issues.

Yes, if you could have a go at them, that would be great. I added in the individual issues on the first series, and did the work-to-work relationships. I haven't looked at the other series yet; we're still sorting comics out (there's about a box of himself's comics still to go through).

60scott_beeler
jan 17, 2021, 2:24 am

>59 Maddz: The Mage series pages look OK to me now. I added the issues for the second and third series that are present in LT, but they're scattershot. The contents for each work were generally fine; I think I moved a couple that were out of place into the correct work.

61CDVicarage
jan 17, 2021, 5:17 am

My list of series on the Stats/Memes page has changed: the sorting now uses every word so that series names beginning with definite or indefinite articles 'A', 'An' and 'The' are now grouped together instead of being sorted by the second word in the title as before. This happened - was changed by LT - on the list of works on the Author Page some time ago but there has been no announcement (that I've seen) that this is an official change, although I can't imagine that any individual user would, or could, make the change. Have I missed something? It's a bit annoying but something I will no doubt get used to if it is an official change.

62Maddz
jan 17, 2021, 5:24 am

>60 scott_beeler: We've got all the issues for the 2nd and 3rd series, so I'll be able to fill any gaps (and any missing covers). The main problem was series 1 with the sheer number of different collections and what looked like bad combinations between them going by cover images.

I have to say I'm inclined to delete the Magebook series; I don't think it serves any useful purpose - neither the Image nor Starblaze collections have their own series. The only thing left will be missing covers in issues 1-8; I suppose I could add the issues from the to be got rid of box (and mark the inventory status as red). It would be nice to be able to add missing covers to works you don't own.

Thanks for doing this.

63gilroy
jan 17, 2021, 6:23 am

>61 CDVicarage: That sounds like a bug that needs to be reported.

64scott_beeler
jan 17, 2021, 10:37 am

>62 Maddz: I'm not an expert on this LT aspect, but I think the incorrect cover images can persist following an incorrect merge that has already been cleaned up. There certainly were bad merges of the Hero Discovered collections in the past, but even after they're split up again properly I think the covers may stay. Like they get attached to the work, not the entry?

I'd agree on Magebook, I don't think it's necessary to have a separate series just for them.

65Maddz
jan 17, 2021, 10:55 am

>64 scott_beeler: Theoretically, that's where the recalculate functions come in, but that only works with member covers from what I understand. If the bad data is from Amazon, then it may be a problem. Hopefully, the work-to-work relationships help with that in the future. Mind you, there's a fair amount of ratty data everywhere and no good way to clean it up.

I'll delete the Magebook series.

(Starting on logging The Hero Defined, one missing so far - the prequel issue 0.)

66Maddz
jan 17, 2021, 2:05 pm

Hah! Turns out himself never got series 3. His comment - Mage had a 'painful' publication history, and the 3rd series came out considerably later. So he missed it.

67Maddz
Redigerat: jan 18, 2021, 3:16 am

Does anyone know anything about the Mister X (the Dean Motter character) series and how they relate to each other?

According to Comic Vine, there are 3 series -

Series 1 starting in 1984: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mister-x/4050-3432/

Series 2 starting in 1989:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mister-x/4050-11316/

Another series starting in 1996:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mister-x/4050-50976/
These may be collections.

Also some miniseries and collections:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mister-x-razed/4050-80327/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mister-x-razed/4050-85775/
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mister-x-the-modern-age/4050-92379/

Here we have the following series:
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/113355/Mister-X
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/32317/Mr-X
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/46669/Mr-X-Vol-1

Plus a load of what look like uncollected oneshots:
https://www.librarything.com/search.php?search=mister+X&searchtype=newwork_t...

I'm looking at the mess and starting to gibber...

Comics.org may be better: https://www.comics.org/searchNew/?q=%22mister%20X%22&search_object=issue&amp...

I think we'd only be concerned with the Vortex, Caliber Press and Dark Horse series (basically anything from the 1980s or later).

68spiphany
Redigerat: jan 23, 2021, 4:41 am

The following publisher series are various language editions of a series selected and introduced by Borges and originally published in Italian:

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/261524/La-Biblioteca-di-Babele-Franco-Maria...
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/259763/Bibliothek-von-Babel
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/318372/Dost-Kitabevi-Babil-Kitapl%C4%B1%C4%...
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/262020/Babilonska-biblioteka
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/263704/A-Biblioteca-de-Babel

Unfortunately, each language seems to have used a different numbering, so the series cannot simply be combined. I've created "reordering" relationships with the Italian series as the original. (Arguably there is no logical reading order, but removing all numbering in order to combine the series seems likely to lead to more confusion.)

If I'm interpreting the Italian Wikipedia entry correctly the Italian series includes three additional volumes that were later added to the original 30.

All of the series need a fair amount of clean up. I'm working on this a bit at a time, but I don't have any meaningful degree of fluency in any of the languages except German, so I would welcome any assistance other users can offer.
The issues are as follows:
- Only the German series (30 titles) and possibly the Croatian series (10 titles) are complete.
- Combination work: Many of titles on the Turkish series page in particular are orphans that have not been combined with other language editions.
- Separation work: A lot of the titles in the series are single novellas or collections of 3-4 short stories, which often end up being absorbed into the work pages for longer volumes of the type "X and Other Stories".

69gilroy
mar 2, 2021, 4:05 pm

It looks like someone was trying to do some work on this series, but it is a cluster and a half and I have no clue what to do or how to fix it. Anyone have knowledge?

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/210/Hainish-Cycle

70Maddz
mar 2, 2021, 4:16 pm

It looks like someone has combined an Italian series with the English series, and the series have different numberings... Some of the Italian works need combining into the English works:

Citta' delle illusioni #4 is probably City of Illusions #3
Il mondo della foresta #7 is probably The Word For World is Forest #6
Il ‰pianeta dell'esilio #3 is probably Planet of Exile #2

And the whole series needs the numbering checking.

Here's the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hainish_Cycle

71spiphany
mar 3, 2021, 2:40 am

>70 Maddz: Touchstone: Hainish Cycle
Ugh, I have no idea what concept is supposed to be guiding the current numbers (which are not even sorted in any sort of logical order). It's not chronological, because there's a second series entry for that.

That said, it is a difficult series in the sense that there isn't really a "natural" numbering or reading order: the internal chronology isn't necessarily immediately obvious to the reader. In addition, about half the works are short stories/novellas, some of which were initially published in magazines, and which have been collected in various different configurations, so "publication order" and "core" vs. "collections/selections" are both rather fuzzy concepts here.

I will go ahead and combine the stray copies with the main works. And then see if I can start to sort out the rest.

Does anyone object if I remove the three collections (Wind's Twelve Quarters, Fisherman of the Inland Sea, Birthday of the World) which contain a mixture of Hainish and non-Hainish stories, and instead list the individual stories in the "core"? Since all or nearly all of Le Guin's stories have their own works in LT and the various omnibus editions differ in how they group the stories, this seems like the most practical way of listing the information (the omnibus editions can go under "collections", of course).

72SandraArdnas
Redigerat: mar 3, 2021, 2:51 am

>71 spiphany: Please do.

From what I've read from Hainish Cycle, it's just a shared universe. ISFDB should have a reliable publication order http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?298

Edit: It also has many of the translations for what needs combining

73spiphany
mar 3, 2021, 3:57 am

OK, I need to go and actually do work today, but this is the current status if anyone wants to continue working on it:
- I've combined the foreign language titles and added the short stories (except for the stories in Four Ways to Forgiveness). I've grouped these for now under "Short Stories and Novellas", but wouldn't object to including them under "Core".

- I've manually sorted the stories and novels according to publication date (true first publication, i.e. including magazine/anthology publication) so that they all appear in their relative publication order in the "ungrouped" listing.

- I haven't touched the collections/omnibus editions.

- I removed the previous numbering from the individual works since I couldn't figure out what it was supposed to represent. I've left the numbering on the omnibus editions for the moment and added numbering 1-4 for the first four novels. After that there seems to be some confusion about which one is 5 and which one is 6, because "The Word for World is Forest" was published in an anthology in 1972 but not as a standalone volume until 1976, so if only book publications are being counted, then "The Dispossessed" comes before it. Please feel free to renumber.

74Maddz
mar 3, 2021, 8:18 am

>73 spiphany: I like having the short stories in a separate section, especially if they are stand-alone stories where the only connection is the shared universe.

Stories that are direct prequels/sequels to the novels I feel ought to be included in the core collection, linked to the novel.

It's a bit like Aliette de Bodard's Xuya Universe where the stories are in the same universe, but are largely unconnected.

75spiphany
mar 3, 2021, 11:16 am

>74 Maddz: A number of the short stories do connect loosely to specific novels (for example "Winter's King" and "Coming of Age in Karhide" are set on the same planet as "The Left Hand of Darkness"; "Semley's Necklace" is a sort of prologue to "Rocannon's World" and "The Day before the Revolution" has a similar relationship to "The Dispossessed"). They're all pretty stand-alone, however.

Most of the connections between the individual novels aren't obvious except for being set in the same universe, so I honestly don't know how much value there is in numbering (except for the fact that it makes for easier at-a-glance identification of which novels are in which omnibus editions on the series page). I don't know that I've ever seen them published with numbering, either.

76aspirit
mar 3, 2021, 11:48 am

I'm in the middle of too many projects, so I'm leaving a quick note about Galactic Concordance instead of digging into it.

We have three series for the one on LT, as seen on the author's page.

https://www.librarything.com/author/nattacarolvan

The three probably need to be combined into one, preferably not with a comma in its name.

77amanda4242
mar 3, 2021, 12:13 pm

78aspirit
mar 3, 2021, 1:17 pm

>77 amanda4242: thank you!

79WeeTurtle
mar 7, 2021, 6:42 am

Hi. I'm not a group member here but I happened upon this by accident.

A while ago I posted this https://www.librarything.com/topic/326604#n7323213
in the combiners group, asking about how the R.A. Salvatore books, specifically "The Legend of Drizzt" should be arranged. Is this something to bring up here?

80aspirit
mar 7, 2021, 11:19 am

Here is a good place.

A book may be within multiple series. I don't see a problem with Servant of the Shard being a part of Paths of Darkness and the larger The Legend of Drizzt. Keep in mind, though, my understanding of these books comes only from your explanation, what I see on LT, and Wikipedia. I don't have any copies or previous experience with the series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Drizzt

Speaking of the Wikipedia entry, that book in the example is listed as the 14th in the series. Here on LT, it's shown as the 13th. I think there are also two Legend series that perhaps should be combined.

82MarthaJeanne
mar 9, 2021, 11:51 am

We discovered that the Hornblower 'Story order' was wrong (seems to have been based on the old publication order). I have corrected the core volumes, but the various anthologies still have the wrong numbers.

83WeeTurtle
mar 10, 2021, 4:11 am

>80 aspirit: "Paths of Darkness" has a small issue on the wiki as well. The wiki only mentions three books, yet the original printing and omnibus have 4, the last being the "Servant of the Shard" that I mentioned previously. There are several overlapping collections or series in LT here. I figured that it made sense to make sure that those with published series names were appropriately grouped, while the more informal series on LT like "Forgotten Realms" or "Drizzt books" still serve as they are. I'm willing to do it but I wanted to make sure that it's something that would be okay to do.

84shmjay
jun 23, 2021, 1:49 pm

I don't seem to be able to combine these series, but they are the same series.

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/268987/Longmans-Learning-About-Language#

should be combined into

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/274184/Learning-about-language

Both of these are the same series as

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/46888/Learning-About-Language

I don't know why we have this series in two different categories.

85gilroy
jun 23, 2021, 2:57 pm

>84 shmjay: you have two ways to do this. Add a book from either of the publisher series to the other series. Then combine them. And then change the publisher series to a regular series and add a book to the regular series to merge them a second time.

You can add both books to the regular series, then delete the two publishers series.
But in order to combine publisher series or regular series, they must have a common book. And a regular series and a publisher series can't be combined, they must be like types.

86jasbro
jul 5, 2021, 3:57 pm

A new Series opportunity that I can't get to just now: https://www.librarything.com/search.php?search=jazz+in+the+house&searchtype=...

87jasbro
jul 5, 2021, 7:54 pm

88Petroglyph
jul 5, 2021, 8:04 pm

>86 jasbro:
I did the bare minimum

89MarthaJeanne
aug 6, 2021, 3:12 pm

How does one get rid of deleted series?

https://www.librarything.com/work/7942138

90gilroy
aug 6, 2021, 3:44 pm

>89 MarthaJeanne: Go into the Add/Edit series box and remove it from there or go to the deleted series, undelete it, remove the items, then redelete it. At least that's the only way I've found.

91amanda4242
aug 6, 2021, 3:52 pm

>89 MarthaJeanne: You can delete them on the work page, too. If I remember correctly deleting one will make it look like they're all gone, but the remaining series will still be there when you refresh the page.

92Keeline
aug 10, 2021, 3:07 pm

I am getting used to the New Series system and have come upon an unusual behavior that seems to be an error. On this series:

Tom Swift Young Inventor

There is a spurious fan fiction entry (Teleportation Machine). I changed the series to custom order since alpha by title was wrong. Then I removed the title. After I clicked save, I got a blank screen. The save was not reflected on the series page.

It feels like an error rather than going through the wrong process.

James

93amanda4242
aug 10, 2021, 3:16 pm

94Maddz
aug 10, 2021, 3:17 pm

95MarthaJeanne
sep 12, 2021, 8:27 am

I just added the video to https://www.librarything.com/nseries/313400/The-Rabbis-Cat, but there doesn't seem to be a way to properly classify it.

96amanda4242
sep 12, 2021, 11:46 am

>95 MarthaJeanne: I've labeled it as a movie and created an "other" group to put it in.

97MarthaJeanne
sep 12, 2021, 12:06 pm

>96 amanda4242: Thank you.

98ScarletBea
maj 4, 2022, 4:25 am

I just noticed that the series His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman also includes as "series authors" the producer of the TV adaptation as well as some of the actors.
It feels wrong to me, it should be only the writer (plus the producer, at a very long stretch...).

What do you think, and how can I (or you) fix it?

99gilroy
maj 4, 2022, 5:45 am

>98 ScarletBea: The only way to fix it is to make the series be ONLY the books.

100humouress
feb 4, 2023, 1:30 am

Is there a way to identify the publisher of a book on LibraryThing if it isn't in your catalogue? I'm looking specifically at the Bob the Builder series, which seems to have several publishers.

101AnnieMod
Redigerat: feb 4, 2023, 1:43 am

>100 humouress: If you have the Book ID and the book is not in a private library and the user who has the book has recorded the publisher, you can check it on the Book details page.

If the book has only a few copies, click on the Members tab on the left side of the work page to see all non private users who have the book and the details will be there. For private users, their details are not public I am afraid.

102humouress
feb 4, 2023, 2:10 am

>101 AnnieMod: Thanks. I see how to get it from a Member's catalogue now.

Where do you get the Book ID? Is that an ISBN?

103AnnieMod
Redigerat: feb 4, 2023, 4:21 am

>102 humouress: No - it is the unique ID of every book on the site, automatically assigned when the book is added and never changed or reused - if you click on a book inside of someone’s catalog, you will see two numbers on the url line (usually in the format work/number/book/number but it can also be a shorter format with two numbers one after another. The last number is the book ID. The work number changes when things are combined but the book number remains the same. (And URLs with the wrong work ID show a mix of the work data and the work data - which can be confusing :) )

It is visible in some places for books which are not part of a private library. Thus my note. In most cases, you are better off looking at catalogs :)

104humouress
feb 4, 2023, 5:52 am

>103 AnnieMod: Thanks. Looks like the catalogues are the easier way :0)

105jasbro
feb 6, 2023, 12:51 pm

>100 humouress: I often find the WordCat and Bookfinder links (upper-right area of the main work page) to be most helpful resources to identify publishers, editions, ISBNs, bindings, contributors, contents, and other useful bibliographic details.

106susanwithagoodbook
Redigerat: mar 12, 2023, 3:37 pm

Hello, I hope this is the correct place to post this:
Library Thing is currently categorizing these two books as one work, but they are two different works in a new series.

Lost on a Page by David Sharpe - original title: Lost on a Page
https://www.librarything.com/work/22271785/book/236643304
now called "Lost on a Page: the Inciting Incident"

and
Lost on a Page: Character Developments by David Sharpe
https://www.librarything.com/work/22271785/book/236643326

These are Book 1 and Book 2 in a series. I'm certain there will soon be a Book 3, so it would be good to correct this soon.
Here's the link to the series on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09SRS8NSP?binding=paperback&ref=dbs_dp_rwt_sb_pc_...

I tried to find a way to do it myself, but don't seem to have the ability, so I'm sure a librarian will be able to fix this easily.

Thank you!

107Nevov
Redigerat: mar 12, 2023, 3:50 pm

>106 susanwithagoodbook: I think I can sort this out :-)

Edit: done, the series is at:
https://www.librarything.com/nseries/353561/Lost-on-a-Page-Series

Note that one of your links won't be completely correct now (because your links were made before the separation they have the same 'work' number in both).
If you need direct links you can use:
1. https://www.librarything.com/work/book/236643304
2. https://www.librarything.com/work/book/236643326

108MarthaJeanne
mar 12, 2023, 3:55 pm

In future, if books have been falsely combined, you can separate them on the edition page.

Note that the autocombiner stops checking titles after a colon.

109susanwithagoodbook
mar 12, 2023, 3:59 pm

>107 Nevov: Thank you!!

110humouress
mar 13, 2023, 11:55 pm

>105 jasbro: Thanks. I’ll look out for that too.

111MarthaJeanne
Redigerat: maj 17, 2023, 3:27 am

https://www.librarything.com/nseries/3700/Valdemar-Kolejność-Chronologiczna
is part of https://www.librarything.com/nseries/321/Valdemar-Chronological-Order and should probably be combined with that if somebody knows how to do it.

Note that the first series is not actually set up correctly to show the desired order. If only a limited number of books are available in that language so that it is desired to have a series with only those books, it should be a publishers series.

112al.vick
maj 17, 2023, 10:25 am

I do know how to combine series, and there is one like this in the Pern series and maybe the Shanara series too. I have never really known what to do about these rather partial lists in other languages. Since I don't know how they were published in other languages.

113MarthaJeanne
maj 17, 2023, 10:36 am

I've now changed that one to publishers series.

114al.vick
maj 17, 2023, 1:31 pm

Here are some more:
Die Drachenreiter von Pern: Reihenfolge des Erscheines Dragonriders of Pern in chronological order?
Die Erbe von Shannara-Tetralogie some subsidies of the Shanara books...

Should these be combined or moved to publisher's series. I have wondered about them for awhile.

116MarthaJeanne
Redigerat: maj 17, 2023, 2:21 pm

>114 al.vick: That's supposed to be publication order, but is set wrong. Seems to be using original publication date, not German. I would say combine. If somebody wants a series set by German publication order (why?) it would have to be reworked.

The second one is a bunch that have been split in the German editions. That can stay as it only affects the German works.

>115 al.vick: No idea.

Second one is weird, as it is certainly NOT a trilogy. Order is German editions, so I would say move to publisher's series.

117MarthaJeanne
Redigerat: maj 17, 2023, 2:49 pm

I'm currently separating the German out of The Elf Queen of Shannara as the German seems to be only half the book. It was already separated. I have moved the series. I also created a work relationship based on the series information.

118al.vick
maj 17, 2023, 2:36 pm

I combined the Per publication order ones. There seem to be two Pern publication order series. One includes Analog magazine issues. I left both of those. I think they are much the same though:

Pern-Publication Order
Dragonriders of Pern: Publication Order

119gabriel
Redigerat: jun 8, 2023, 1:38 pm

>111 MarthaJeanne: I would argue that we shouldn't have separate publisher's series for series in translation where the only difference is that the works have been differently numbered or only some are available in translation. An example might be The Red Wheel, where some volumes have been translated into French but not English.

We should prefer simplicity to complexity. There is doubtless a role for publisher series to record translated series where it becomes quite complex, but I think in most situations, we should prefer to keep it all within the series.

120MarthaJeanne
jun 8, 2023, 1:35 pm

For people who read that language, these series are important.

121AnnieMod
Redigerat: jun 8, 2023, 1:39 pm

>119 gabriel: So how do you propose people who read the series in another language to keep track of their own series? Do their own numbering in a separate field in their catalogs? Or should we just ignore the people who read in translation and insist on only caring about the order in the original language?

LT's system allows these to be recorded properly so people can track and see what they have. Why should we not use that ability to make everyone's life easier and our DB better for everyone?

122gabriel
jun 8, 2023, 1:48 pm

>119 gabriel: How so? It seems to me that we are getting into rapidly diminishing significance when the main series remains available.

123AnnieMod
jun 8, 2023, 1:53 pm

>122 gabriel: For whom? A reader who only reads in French or Spanish or Russian or pick your own language does not really care about the order of the series in a different language. I know I did not when I was reading only in Bulgarian for example - the fact that there may be 10 more books in English or that what I know as volumes 1-3 are actually volumes 6,9 and 12 was irrelevant - I was reading through the series in my language in its order. Not having this order here makes the site less usable and helpful for international users - and they are already jumping through hoops in way too many places as is.

124Petroglyph
jun 8, 2023, 3:02 pm

>119 gabriel:, >122 gabriel:

What AnnieMod said.

Why would readers of the French-language series have to number their volumes not according to what it says in their copies but follow some other language's order?

125Maddz
sep 21, 2023, 3:19 pm

Does anyone feel like sorting out the unholy mess that are the Rolemaster RPG series? As far as I can see, there should be 4 groups of series relating to the various edition groupings (there are major differences in character generation), plus a unified publisher series:

*Rolemaster 1st, 2nd & Classic Editions
*Rolemaster 3rd & 4th Editions
*Rolemaster Express
*Rolemaster Unified

Middle Earth Roleplaying, HARP Fantasy and Aborea are considered part of the Rolemaster family. Note that Spacemaster is a different RPG family (as per RPGGeek).

It's messy because some supplements belong to more than one family, others have multiple entries in the same family - as individual books or as sets or as different editions.

I started looking at the entries but quickly ran into trouble when I tried to assign the contained within relationship for Arms Law & Claw Law with the singleton editions.

Unfortunately, Rolemaster was a system I never got into so I don't know all that much about the editions. I just have a few supplements...