Clarification of New Chat Font Color Scheme Please

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Clarification of New Chat Font Color Scheme Please

1thornton37814
nov 21, 2020, 7:48 am

I'm confused about the font colors for the new color scheme in talk. I think the blue color is unread, and the purple is supposed to be visited. However, I have unread messages in many of those purple ones so I haven't visited those messages. How long does it take to clear the visited color from those messages so they end up blue again? I miss the old where anything with old unread messages turned up blue.

2norabelle414
nov 21, 2020, 10:26 am

The talk main page URL for unread messages on a topic used to be
"{topic number}#{message number}"
but now it's
"{topic number}#unread" (the actual word "unread")
this means that every time you click the same topic to read new messages, the URL is exactly the same, which means that the purple "visited" link is never going to turn back to blue.

I don't like it either.

3scaifea
nov 21, 2020, 10:50 am

I was wondering about that, too. And yeah, my brain doesn't like it.

4krazy4katz
nov 21, 2020, 6:11 pm

I thought that something was different, but couldn't be sure, given my present state of insanity. Thank you for confirming what I thought. As I have a bad memory, I will probably manage with the new system. :-)

5casvelyn
Redigerat: nov 21, 2020, 6:13 pm

It's very overwhelming/confusing. Because there are two different systems encoding overlapping but slightly different information in the same place (bold=unread vs. not-bold=read & blue=not-visited vs. purple=visited), it creates too much visual noise and interfering symbols to be able to efficiently process what the text actually says and whether or not I'm caught up on the thread. The signals just keep getting mixed up, like trying to follow two separate conversations in two separate languages at the same time. Plus it's just ugly and messy.

They should all stay blue all the time (so everything has a consistent color scheme) and let the bold/not-bold dichotomy provide differentiation. I would imagine most of us are more interested in knowing which threads have new posts than which threads we've visited at least once at some point in the near or distant past.

6gilroy
nov 22, 2020, 7:52 am

If you know for a fact that you have unread messages, you can scroll back to the first unread. Then click on More. Under there, you can click Mark as read to here. Mind you, this has to be redone EVERY time you go into a thread if you choose to not actually read it.

7japaul22
nov 22, 2020, 8:27 am

Thanks for bringing this up. I'm also very confused by it. I can't figure out why some threads I visit turn purple and some don't. Maybe it's just a bug that is still being fixed?

8thornton37814
nov 22, 2020, 8:27 am

I would prefer for threads with unread messages to remain blue as they did in the past. I don't really like the bold either. If I have unread messages, it is time to visit them again!

9reconditereader
nov 22, 2020, 12:29 pm

I agree with >5 casvelyn: and >7 japaul22:

10reading_fox
nov 22, 2020, 4:28 pm

Really dislike the bold. It's fine if I've read the whole wall with just a few unreads, but that very rarely happens, so I basically have the entire screen shouting at me.

11timspalding
nov 23, 2020, 11:42 am

We'll put some thought into the #unread tag.

It was indeed referencing the post before--but it had to reference the last post you've read, not the post AFTER the last post you've read. This was a continual source of complaints by members. The problem is, of course, that LibraryThing knows what you've read, but calculating the NEXT post would require more trips to the database.

Anyway, we'll think on it in our meeting today.

12norabelle414
nov 23, 2020, 12:00 pm

Personally I liked having links go to the last read message instead of the first unread. I like having the additional context. But the new way is fine too.

13jjwilson61
nov 23, 2020, 5:57 pm

>12 norabelle414: I'm not sure what you're seeing but for me the last unread link still sends me to the last read message. Some of the people in my groups tend to post long messages so I often have to scroll down several pages which is just annoying. If I want the context it wouldn't be much trouble to scroll up.

14aspirit
Redigerat: nov 27, 2020, 11:30 am

>11 timspalding: I prefer that a topic opens at the last read message instead of the first unread message. That's one of the things I thought LT was doing better than other sites. Not having to scroll up to confirm what was previously read is convenient.

15jjwilson61
nov 27, 2020, 9:28 am

>14 aspirit: Actually I said that I prefer the link take me to the first unread message.

16krazy4katz
Redigerat: nov 27, 2020, 11:25 am

I think, if you click on the number of unread messages, it seems to take you to the last read message, which is not too bad. However, I am usually on a laptop so I can see both the last read and the first unread at the same time. I like that because it reminds me what was being discussed. :-)

ETA: The reason this works is that I always go to Home instead of to Talk to select a topic.

17jjwilson61
nov 27, 2020, 11:28 am

>16 krazy4katz: No. At least on my Android phone it doesn't matter where I click the entire box lights up like it's all one link.

I want to add that it's even more of a problem because each post is longer because there's less width for them.

18aspirit
nov 27, 2020, 11:31 am

>15 jjwilson61: Corrected. I'm sorry I misread.

19krazy4katz
nov 27, 2020, 1:36 pm

>17 jjwilson61: That's too bad. I understand why you are frustrated.

20_Zoe_
nov 27, 2020, 1:59 pm

I hate all the bold, especially now that everything is so big. Is it really necessary for the group name to be bold as well?

21timspalding
Redigerat: nov 27, 2020, 2:01 pm

>21 timspalding:

Go down to "Change style" at the bottom of the page and choose something other than "A," if you find it too bold.

T

22_Zoe_
nov 27, 2020, 2:16 pm

>21 timspalding: Thank you! I'm really glad those options exist.

23saltmanz
nov 27, 2020, 3:13 pm

20> I agree with this, even after playing with the style settings. It looks great on my phone of course, but on desktop it's an eyesore. (Prioritizing mobile is sadly the default for websites in 2020.)

24_Zoe_
nov 27, 2020, 4:43 pm

>23 saltmanz: Yeah, I'd certainly prefer to have just the unread numbers bolded (and, for that matter, to have the stars back where I'll actually see them). But I'll settle for "not completely intolerable".

25thornton37814
nov 27, 2020, 6:03 pm

I still hate that the majority of messages now default to purple in the list. I would prefer that ones with unread messages be blue. I did switch to B which helped, but I'm still frustrated by the visited threads never go back to blue.

26jjwilson61
nov 27, 2020, 7:32 pm

>19 krazy4katz: It's now jumping to the first unread for me! Thank you for that.

27jjwilson61
nov 28, 2020, 10:43 am

I just noticed that when there are no unread messages that instead of taking you to the last post it now takes you to the new post box below the last post.

Also, why can't you reply to your own.post?

28PawsforThought
nov 28, 2020, 11:07 am

>21 timspalding: Choosing a different style doesn’t stick for me. Every time I go on LT it’s auto-changed back to style A. Doesn’t matter if I’m on my phone or iPad (I’m auto-logged in on both) or a computer at work or elsewhere. Always back to style A.

29Opteryx
nov 28, 2020, 11:21 am

>28 PawsforThought: Odd, I set my computer on style B as soon as this feature appeared, and it has stayed set on style B so far since then.

30SandraArdnas
nov 28, 2020, 11:43 am

>28 PawsforThought: Do you perhaps have the browser set to clear cookies after every session?

31PawsforThought
Redigerat: nov 28, 2020, 1:46 pm

>29 Opteryx: I have to re-set it to style C every single time. Or rather, every time I can be bothered to.

>30 SandraArdnas: Nope, no clearing cookies. And I don’t close the browser in between anyway so don’t think it should matter. I’m auto-logged into LT on my phone and that tab in the browser is never closed.

32LolaWalser
nov 28, 2020, 3:39 pm

I hoped I'd get used to it, but I must add my voice to those who find the current scheme hard to manage. I find I get stuck trying to decipher what is going on over and over, because, it seems, there's just so much on it pulling my attention in different directions. As someone above noted, it's very noisy. Six features battling for attention: black light and bold, blue light and bold, purple light and bold... too much of a muchness.

Would a simple, binary "been there"/"have not been there" not suffice?

33Opteryx
nov 28, 2020, 5:27 pm

Personally I had kind of liked the idea of being able to use the blue/purple status to tell whether I'd ever viewed that thread before (at least on the same computer), but it has been turning out to not even be very helpful for that... several times in the last couple days, I have noticed that some threads I know I have viewed multiple times had their links remain blue, while others still turned purple. Blue/purple is helpful to me in the rest of the site, but not so much in the Talk topics list, currently.

34krazy4katz
Redigerat: nov 28, 2020, 10:01 pm

I just go there if there is a number that is not bold or a different color than the other not bold number. I agree: I am not going to bother remembering which colors mean what. I pay no attention to the boldness of the topic. They don't bother me. I won't bother them.

35timspalding
nov 29, 2020, 8:45 am

I changed the system again, so it's no longer by "unread." Let me know what you think.

36casvelyn
Redigerat: nov 29, 2020, 10:02 am

So I just figured this out, and it may be my browser, but I'd like it fixed if possible, so here goes. I suck at step-by-step instructions, so bear with me. I'm on Windows 10/latest version of Chrome.

Here's what's happening:

1. If I go to Talk > Starred Topics
2. If I click on a thread link that is blue (unvisited) and bold (unread) and I read the new messages and return to Starred Topics via the left-hand menu.
3. Then the link I clicked is still blue and now not-bold. This is what I expect to happen/should happen.

HOWEVER... the steps above are not actually how I use LT. Here's what I do and how it's messing things up.

1. I go to Talk > Starred Topics
2. I right click > Open in New Tab on the thread links of any and all threads I want to read. If I haven't logged in in a while, I may open 20+ tabs.
3. I close the original tab containing Starred Topics.
4. I go from tab to tab, reading the threads and then closing the tabs.
5. When I get to the final tab, I go to Starred Topics using the left-hand menu to see if there are any further threads I want to visit.
6. All the links I opened in new tabs are now purple (visited) and not-bold on the Starred Topics list.

I can train myself not to open links in new tabs when using LT, but this is my normal web-browsing behavior across the internet and has been since the invention of tabbed browsing, so I'd rather not switch it up now. Is there something that can be tweaked in the code to prevent the links from turning purple when accessed via "Open New Tab?"

This is what I end up with and it's really distracting and makes the actual content of the text harder to process.

37conceptDawg
Redigerat: dec 1, 2020, 3:19 pm

>36 casvelyn: We just had lots of people complain about the purple indicators not working because of the way we were doing "next unread" links.

The purple indicator color shows visited links and it's an important navigation cue for most people. I don't think we can do away with that without causing a small war or police action.

edit: To be completely honest, I'd love to do away with the purple.

38Opteryx
Redigerat: dec 1, 2020, 4:11 pm

>37 conceptDawg: Note that, as I mentioned previously, the purple is currently not working consistently for the intended purpose, at least for me. (And I do wish it would, as it is helpful sometimes to know which threads I've ever read before, separate from whether they have new unread messages in them.) The links to Talk threads sometimes (not always) don't turn purple for me even after multiple visits to that thread in the same session, regardless of whether being left-clicked to open in the same tab or middle/right-clicked to open in a new tab. (Edit: I'm not sure about the last part anymore, but either way, how you open the thread should not ever interfere with it getting recorded in your browser's history properly - which is what normally determines the blue/purple status of links on sites that use that color-coding.)

39casvelyn
Redigerat: dec 1, 2020, 4:02 pm

>37 conceptDawg: The purple indicator color shows visited links and it's an important navigation cue for most people.

Yeah, but in this context it's a flawed cue. Typically you don't visit a thread once. You visit, more people post, and you visit again, sometimes hundreds of times over several months. So if it's going to turn purple when you click on it, it needs to turn back to blue once there are new posts. We already have bold/not bold as a visual cue that actually works, so we don't need the color change at all. Edit: Either that or get rid of the bold/not-bold cue, because taken all together it makes that page ugly and hard to read.

If the purple has to stay, is there a way to make it behave consistently whether I left-click to open a thread in the same tab (thread stays blue) or right-click to open the thread in a new tab (thread turns purple)? Or is that just my browser being weird?

Aside: To me, links turning color after you've clicked on them seems like an outdated aspect of web design. Also less useful than it used to be, since the web is more a web of Google searches and algorithms and less a web of linked sites and pages these days.

40Opteryx
Redigerat: dec 1, 2020, 4:14 pm

>39 casvelyn: It's not about the left/right clicks, the color changes inconsistently for me regardless of how I open the threads. Edit: Or so I'd thought... maybe it is following the same pattern you described, I'm not sure now. Either way, it's not helpful/effective with this behavior.

And FWIW, I wouldn't call link color-changing 'outdated' just because it's a longstanding function... especially with comparison to Google searches, since I still see visited links turn purple on Google search results pages.

41jjwilson61
dec 1, 2020, 4:48 pm

>37 conceptDawg: Since we already have the visual clue for whether a thread has new posts, I think the visited/unvisited distinction is unnecessary and distracting. So I think it would be better to just suppress the visited link color for this page.

42SandraArdnas
dec 1, 2020, 5:50 pm

>41 jjwilson61: I agree. While I really find the feature useful in other LT pages (and the web in general), in talk it's just distracting

43NinieB
dec 1, 2020, 10:45 pm

>39 casvelyn: Yes, it's inconsistent which ones actually turn color.

44timspalding
dec 1, 2020, 10:49 pm

I think we should disable link coloring. I'll talk to conceptDawg about it.

45casvelyn
dec 2, 2020, 8:20 am

>40 Opteryx:
>43 NinieB:

Huh, that's interesting, and rather more weird if there's no pattern. Something has to be triggering it. I wonder if it's an OS/browser thing?

46thornton37814
dec 2, 2020, 4:06 pm

>44 timspalding: Thank you! The problem is that it never reverts back to blue. I star the ones I follow. Like casvelyn, I right click and open lots of tabs at once--usually at least 10 and sometimes 20 or 25, depending on how many starred topics with unread threads are there. I hate the purple!

47casaloma
Redigerat: dec 2, 2020, 8:29 pm

>10 reading_fox: Really dislike the bold. It's fine if I've read the whole wall with just a few unreads, but that very rarely happens, so I basically have the entire screen shouting at me.

Agree!

Could we have a 'Mark All As Read' option?

48conceptDawg
dec 3, 2020, 5:39 pm

I've pushed the change to remove the visited color indication from the main Talk table listing.
All links should now be the main link color, regardless of you having visited that page before or not.

49Taphophile13
dec 3, 2020, 5:40 pm

>48 conceptDawg: Thank you. Much better.

50conceptDawg
Redigerat: dec 3, 2020, 5:53 pm

>10 reading_fox: & >47 casaloma: I'm looking into a variation to help with this. Not sure it's going to make the cut, but you have not been ignored.

51casvelyn
dec 3, 2020, 10:06 pm

>48 conceptDawg: Thank you!

52Ennas
dec 6, 2020, 6:53 am

>48 conceptDawg: This is much better, thanks a lot!