Order of the Phoenix chapters 9-12 discussion
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9: The Woes of Mrs. Weasley
10: Luna Lovegood
11: The Sorting Hat's New Song
12: Professor Umbridge
When Mr. Weasley and Harry run into Mr. Malfoy there's some sublte conversation between Arthur and Lucius about "here". I wonder if they were each referring to being so near the department of mysteries and not the MoM/Harry's hearing as we are led to believe.
I wonder why the Weasley's weren't more aware of the OotP the first time. Molly's brothers were in it and died. I know they had young children at the time and felt they couldn't be active...(though that didn't stop the Potters and the Longbottoms) but still.
I always wondered why Harry was so surprised to see his parents in Mad-Eye's photo. I can understand that it would be upsetting to think of everyone happy and to see them sitting next Wormtail I don't know why he was surprised. He knew his parents were in the order and that it was a picture of the order!
Things that make me LOL everytime.
1) When Molly says everyone in the family were prefects and George says "What are Fred and I? Next-door neighbors?
2) "Hermione looked as though she didn't know whether to smile or not and compromised by taking an extra large gulp of Butterbeer and choking on it."
I love Luna! She makes me think of all the "weird" meaning socially inept kids in high school. I was sometimes mean and rarely nice and I feel bad, because they were probably awesome.
I have had dogs "hug" me the way Sirius did Harry. What was Molly's problem?
K: Umbridge wears cardigans...they're everywhere!
If you were in Hufflepuff, how would you feel about the Sorting Hat calling you "the rest" meaning you were not Pure-blood/cunning, clever, or brave? I think I would have preferred the ones where I was called loyal.
That said, I love the Sorting Hat's song, it's so true. Whenever you divide yourself into groups rivalry is sure to follow and that can often translate into hostility.
I missed Sir Nick in this movie...especially at the end, but we'll get there. On a related note, do you notice how Ron always manages to offend Nick somehow?
I love all the teachers who don't like Umbridge.
I love the hidden irony of Umbridge promoting change when she really wants to maintain the status quo...none of Dumbledores progressivism for her!
I love when Neville stands up for Harry ("We believe Harry"). I makes me cry a little bit. Neville rocks (although in my head he is much shorter and chubbier that movie Neville, I still like movie Neville too though)
If I were Dumbledore, I would have made Neville a prefect, not Ron. Of course, then we couldn't have had all of the ensuing angst and jealousy from Harry.
About Moody's photo of the original order -- I didn't read Harry's reaction as surprise, exactly. Photos are strange things, though. For example, I have a completely irrational reaction to photos of myself. They are invariably bad, and even when I'm expecting it, it makes my stomach tie itself in knots. The quickest way to ruin my day is to run up to me, wave a hideous photo of me in my face, and say "Look! Isn't this a great picture of you?" This, of course, implies that you feel that the photograph has captured me at my best -- I can hardly imagine what you must think I look like on a bad day, then.
So, though it's a different case, I can understand Harry's reaction to the picture of the original Order, particularly his parents. What I'm not sure of is how this moves the plot forward at all.
LG and I were talking about this chapter in the chatroom last night, and we both thought that a lot of the stuff in it could have been edited out without hurting the story. I rather like the part with Mrs. Weasley and the boggart, for example, but I think there was too much setup for it -- it was mentioned two or three times, earlier: was it a boggart or wasn't it? Should we have Moody look at it? and then they did have Moody look at it. All this for a scene that basically underscores the point made by the Harry and the picture scene -- people died last time the Order was active; it's reasonable to assume that people will die this time.
Looking at it that way, do you think Rowling was trying to prepare us for the seventh book? for the end of this book?
The woes of mrs. Weasley: is that the chapter when she tries to fight that *boogeyman* (sorry, I am reading it in Dutch, can't recall the English word for it... The class was taught by Lupin to fight them) ? Kinda foreshadowing, when you look back now.
I suppose you're right and a lot of this isn't really necessary. It doesn't bother me though because I want to live in that world for as long as possible so the longer and more drawn out the books the better for me :)
Personally, I would rather Mr. Weasley than Fred, but that's just me.
I think the prefect drama went on way too long, too. I agree, DD could have made Neville a prefect. My ex went to a British boarding school, and he was a rather shy kid and they made him a prefect. Neville would have been a good choice. For that matter, what's wrong with Dean or Seamus? But we need to have everything revolve around Harry, I guess.
I think more kids are like Fred & George about prefects, tell you the truth. Only someone like Hermione would be psyched about it.
Good for Hermione standing up to Harry!
Why doesn't Cho hate Harry? (yet)
How are a regular History of Magic class and a Double Potions class both an hour and a half? Does the "Double" mean that they share it with another class? I always assumed it had something to do with the length.
How does Binns grade essays and tests? Does he have a T.A.? All indications are that HP ghosts can not touch or move things.
"Why would you need to use defensive spells" is when I definitively fell in hate w/Umbridge. Using spells the first time in an exam is completely ridiculous! I know it's supposed to be but really!
I hate/love this scene in the classroom. I see it as one of the "other students". I'm simultaneously horrified and fascinated by what is happening.
I love McGonagall and her cookies.
Good luck commiserating with a 15-year-old boy. As she finds out. Actually, all the Cho stuff makes perfect sense to me.
JKR is so wise....
Luna is wonderful!
16- Yeah, JKR got it perfect.
I was noticing that in Mary GranPre's illustration of Luna, she appears to be wearing Birkenstocks!
ETA: SPOILER FOR DH: That scene where they go into Luna's room and she has painted all their names & pictures on her wall with the word "friends" all around is maybe the most touching thing in all 7 books.
But I totally agree with with most people would have a Fred and George reaction to Prefect, as in who wants it? and again even tho Harry knew his parents were in the Order last time it still might have been a shock to see them . I know that coming across a picture of my grandparents who are passed can make me sad and it would be really hard if they were waving and smiling!
about Luna- I WAS Luna when I was in school, totally weird and out of sync with everyone else. So I totally get Luna!
Neville- Is a sweetheart and I have liked him more in each successive book, in many ways I was much like Neville too, shy and scared of authority and the victom of bullies, which in turn made me a bit stronger each timeas I learned to fight back
Umbridge- I have nothing to say about her at this time except I wish someone would have turned her into the toad she so resembled!
#9: as the resident Weasley Expert....
Rowlign said that one of the weasley's was definetly going to die in HP7. The reason she choose Fred was because out of the two twins he was the more forward one. He's the one who asked Angelina to the dance, and several other things. When you think of the twins you just thinking of Fred first
Which is why she thought it be more surprising and unexpected to take Fred out of the battle.
I always thought if she had to take out someone, she should have taken out Charlie. He was the most elusive of the Weasley clan, and while it woudl have been a blow, it woudl have been less painful
END OF SPOILER
I am luna, so i relate well with the totally weird, but still wanting the adventure thing. I love it.
(And we decided that it's impossible to discuss this book without spoilers, so I put a general warning on the group page and we're spoilin' away!)
I will never forgive JKR for Fred. Never. It's too late to try to make it up to me now with silly rationalizations.
I have things to say about Fred but I will wait until we reread that. I will say though g, he was always my favorite and I was right there with you.
I'm coming back slowly, but theres about 20 bazzillion post to sort through, i feel like a newbie again.
27: i only cried once in that entire book, when Fred died
I was mad mad mad mad mad
Complete agreement on your book 7 spoiler and I love that JKR in her discussion of what happened to characters said she ended up as a kind of magical naturalist seeking out magical species in the wild.
I am sorry I haven't been rereading because I think this is the book where Rowling makes a brilliant turn. She has introduced good vs evil and that isn't new in children's books or fiction but here she adds the layer of politics and people who will do bad things because they believe they are right and I think that is a profound thing to teach children. Looking at the history of the world there is more harm from groups fighting because they believe emphatically in their own rightness and very few solitary evil figures.
And yes I want a prefects bathroom too sans Myrtle.
I feel like I should have more to say about this chapter. I agree with everyone who has said that they love Luna -- she's great! I don't think I was like Luna when I was a teen -- more like the worst possible Hermione/Neville cross you can imagine -- but I sometimes think I'm a bit like her now. Random, yanno. I love the Quibbler as it's described in this chapter.
My main beef with this chapter is the Thestrals. I still think that Harry should have been able to see them at the end of GoF. I know that JKR said something about him not having processed everything that had happened by the end of GoF, but I think that sounds suspiciously like an author's attempt to cover a gaping plot hole.
Not much to say that hasn't already been said. I do love the way that Ron always manages to offend Nearly Headless Nick.
I thought the scene with Seamus was well done. At that age, a parent's opinion can carry real weight. I remember being about 15, and some girl at summer camp made a comment about how her parents thought my parents had done a really poor job at something or other (our parents were in the same line of work). I don't think I spoke to her for the rest of the summer. Seamus is doing the same sort of thing to Harry.
Minerva McGonagall is my hero, and I want to be just like her when I grow up. That is all.
I think you put that very well. OotP has always been my favorite HP book and that change is one of the main reasons, however I've never been able to articulate it as well as you did!
I read some of the adventure threads last week. I used to have daydreams of marrying Fred and I was heartbroken when he died. I would also like to say that Fred and George were born in 1978 and I was born in 1979 we are very close in age and therefore much more likely to have met and fallen in love. ;)
It's very cool in this book that Harry does get to see more people caring for him in true and obvious ways. The other point is when Molly tells Sirius that Harry is "as good as" her son. I'm not sure if until this point Harry really knew the depth of the Weasley's caring for him.
Makes more sense the book way.
I agree but then are we really surprised given the way I feel about the movie?
Book ways usually make more sense, but movies can still be fun to watch. I kind of liked the movie's "psycho Harry" more than the book's "whiney & confused Harry." I think the latter is more realistic, but the former easier to spend 2 hours with.
Being a 15 year old, i tend to stay away from teh angst thing, cuz i have a feeling i'll get defensive, which will only prove your point!
Sorry g I won't take it from you. Let me ask you though...I like book Fred more than book George, but I like movie George better than book Fred. Is that weird? The problem is that all the good ones are already taken! Who's left for poor old me? I guess maybe Charlie would be okay....
Boy are we off-topic! But if this off-topic-ness is wrong, I don't want to be right! ;-)
don't get too attatched to Charlie, i'm bring back fred and killing him off instead
I shudder at snape, but maybe ol' Sirius
ETA Rissa, my first literary crush was Peter Pan shortly followed by Joe Hardy, now its Ramses Emerson.
Sorry. That was completely off topic. I'll give you back your thread now. :o)
Don't worry about hijacking, it was my fault!
You are to young for Joe Hardy!
Hugh Laurie played Mr. Palmer. He was hilariously crotchety and totally sweet when Marianne got sick at his "house".
And then cat said that James was Head Boy. How do you get to be HB if you're not a prefect!?
Are these more of JKR's "math problems?"
Next week on PBS is the new version of S and S. I guess it starts with a rather racy scene!
I believe James Potter was Quiddich captain, which is how he got to be HB. (I think this might actually be why Mrs. Weasley considers Charlie as having been a prefect.)
#69 I agree. I know this movie has taken some heat all of them have. But I like it. I think it is my favorite after PoA. Cuaron is just a better film maker and better cinematorgraphy. But in part what he does well is the politics and even though Ginny doesn't have the lines and development she has in the books he gave her significance in some of the long shots. He attempted to develop that relationship even without the dialogue being there and I resepct that.
Wait -let me give the caveat that the books are better the films are entirely different entities that I am able to enjoy independently. I will have favorite things too that got cut that I miss but I'll live with it.