Gormenghast LE 2022

Ursprunglig rubrik: New World of Gothic Mystery LE

DiskuteraFolio Society Devotees

Bara medlemmar i LibraryThing kan skriva.

Gormenghast LE 2022

1Caput_Lupinum
Redigerat: jun 6, 2022, 7:30 am

FS have teased an image of a new LE alongside the following text: 'Prepare to get lost in a world of gothic mystery, with a new limited edition available for pre-order on Wednesday 15 June at 2pm (BST).'

2wcarter
jun 6, 2022, 7:41 am

Gormenghast!

3Caput_Lupinum
jun 6, 2022, 8:07 am

>2 wcarter: That's what I was thinking. Feel free to change the title to this thread to Gormenghast LE, either now or once the book is officially confirmed.

4vmb443
jun 6, 2022, 8:15 am

Sure hope they’ve increased the website capacity for a pre-announced release…

5punkzip
jun 6, 2022, 8:35 am

Hopefully not bound by Lego SPA.

6rsmac
jun 6, 2022, 8:38 am

"Prepare to have at least £1000 (or $1500) available in you bank account by the 15th of June..."

7antinous_in_london
Redigerat: jun 6, 2022, 8:42 am

>4 vmb443: Though i’m sure it will be popular , i don't think Peake has the same wide-ranging rabid fan-base that Tolkien has, so I would expect the release to be more like the Shirley Jackson LE which sold quickly (with quite a low limitation) but didn’t affect the website performance at all. Much may depend also on the price as many seem to expect this to be priced even higher than the LOTR, which may dampen the enthusiasm of some potential buyers.

8abysswalker
jun 6, 2022, 8:41 am

Definitely Gormenghast. The pattern matches the slipcase shown in the recent flyer.

9boldface
jun 6, 2022, 8:58 am

>1 Caput_Lupinum:

I think the architectural details hidden in the "maze" support the idea of it being Gormenghast.

10wongie
jun 6, 2022, 9:02 am

>5 punkzip: I think I heard the dried up sinews of a monkey paw curling up somewhere fulfilling your wish; it'll be printed and bound by C&C Offset instead!

11coffeewithastraw
jun 6, 2022, 9:17 am

I am very interested in this but fear it will be out of budget. In that case I will blame my lack of purchase on my low enthusiasm for the box. If it is within budget the box will grow in my esteem allowing for purchase.

12JustinLey0
jun 6, 2022, 9:25 am

Detta konto har stängts av för spammande.

13Shadekeep
jun 6, 2022, 9:29 am

I'd love to get this, but I suspect it's going to be far out of my price range. Perhaps if an SE edition follows it up I will get that.

And the teaser image also reminds me of the Japanese novel The Crimson Labyrinth, which I don't expect anyone else is familiar with. At least I've never met anyone else who has read it.

14A.Godhelm
jun 6, 2022, 11:02 am

Love Dave McKean's art but I too fear this will be astronomically expensive. Plus the Folio sale is just a few weeks away. Tough decisions.

15coynedj
jun 6, 2022, 11:17 am

I don't see any good reason to replace my earlier edition of Gormenghast even if they do an SE down the line. I feel the same way about my Seamus Heaney Beowulf - the illustrations in the previous editions seem so fitting that I'll happily keep them and let others buy he new versions.

16rsmac
jun 6, 2022, 11:20 am

>14 A.Godhelm: Yeah, the McKean art is the main draw for me, but maybe as an SE version sometime in the future.

17icewindraider
jun 6, 2022, 12:06 pm

I was able to pick up the 1992 edition recently for $150, which seemed to be a good price in the 2022 pricing world of everything. I'm hopeful that the new LE (which will forever be out of my price range) will drive down the price of the old editions to make them more affordable for everyone. They're really neat books. The McKean art will be cool too I'm sure, but, the amount of art in the old editions is really great.

18Lady19thC
jun 6, 2022, 12:42 pm

Personally, I am not particularly attracted to this set, and I adore my earlier FS SE set, not only for the artwork, but because it was the first time I had read Gormenghast and I loved it. Maybe I am weird, but when a book or series has won my heart, that particular "physical" edition is more precious than rubies in my eyes, and I don't want to replace it. So, yes, this is good for anyone who wants a very fancy edition, and if a SE comes out, that also gives others the opportunity to finally get a FS set if they want one. But I am sticking with my older version!

19RRCBS
jun 6, 2022, 1:15 pm

>18 Lady19thC: I’m the same! I fell in love with many Victorian authors via Everymans Library and even though I have upgraded some of the books, I don’t have the heart to let go of the EL volumes despite the fact that I could really use the space!

20Willoyd
jun 6, 2022, 3:12 pm

>15 coynedj: >18 Lady19thC:
Me too. Completely uninterested in a Gormenghast LE - the SE was pure gold and remains one of my favourite FS productions.

21JohnPotten
jun 6, 2022, 3:48 pm

Can anyone remind me how long LOTR took to sell out? . I'm in a meeting at 2pm :-(

22Shadekeep
jun 6, 2022, 5:02 pm

>20 Willoyd: Honestly, I'd rather they re-issue that earlier edition as well. The artwork in it is much more to my liking. But I'm probably going to have to content myself with what I can get at this point.

23SF-72
jun 6, 2022, 5:08 pm

>21 JohnPotten:

About 1.5 days, though it would probably have been faster if the website hadn't developed problems due to the onslaught.

24What_What
jun 6, 2022, 9:18 pm

This'll be the third LE in a row where the FS does an announcement prior to launch - HoHH, LOTR, and now Gormenghast. I hope it's here to stay.

25terebinth
jun 7, 2022, 3:35 am

>24 What_What:

Just imagine the levels of excitement here and on Facebook if a teasing image of a small section of a wonderful old apple variety had been released a week ahead of the hour when the Herefordshire Pomona became available for purchase.

26Tamachan00
jun 7, 2022, 4:10 am

27SF-72
jun 7, 2022, 4:38 am

28InVitrio
jun 7, 2022, 5:24 am

29wcarter
jun 7, 2022, 5:32 am

>25 terebinth:
Cor(e) blimey!

30punkzip
Redigerat: jun 7, 2022, 6:00 pm

>25 terebinth: I suspect that LE's like the Herefordshire Pomona are a thing of the past. It may all be the usual suspects going forward - that is, LEs that FS knows will sell well. Not too hard to know what those are.

31RogerBlake
Redigerat: jun 7, 2022, 7:08 pm

Has anyone else noticed that Gormenghast is being bound with an open spine which is also described as a "technical challenge" - not a good omen in my opinion ... :-(

32What_What
jun 7, 2022, 8:55 pm

>31 RogerBlake: Hopefully with as large a limitation as they’re doing, they’ve managed to master it, and there won’t be any issues.

33antinous_in_london
jun 8, 2022, 12:16 pm

>30 punkzip: It’s only been 2 years since FS released the Babar LE - not exactly a blockbuster guaranteed sell-out release, or one of the ‘usual suspects’. I assume that, as with that release, FS will continue to produce the odd LE which doesn't pander to the instant sell-out market.

34terebinth
jun 8, 2022, 2:00 pm

>33 antinous_in_london:

Yes, and the very recent Aurora Australis, the last LE I bought and my first Folio purchase in more than a year, seems very much a release that could easily have happened in the Joe Whitlock-Blundell years. Still, there clearly is a trend away from such things, we'll see how far it's taken.

35jswift81
jun 11, 2022, 11:36 am

If anyone's on the fence about buying the LE, I would highly suggest going after the SE on the secondary market instead. It's hands down one of the best sets FS has ever produced.

36JohnPotten
jun 11, 2022, 3:39 pm

For those who want to buy, it looks like preorder date has moved up to 2pm bst on TUESDAY 14th

37red_guy
jun 11, 2022, 4:41 pm

So it has - that's outrageous!

38RogerBlake
jun 11, 2022, 6:16 pm

>36 JohnPotten: For those who want to buy, it looks like preorder date has moved up to 2pm bst on TUESDAY 14th

Where did you see that?

39whytewolf1
Redigerat: jun 11, 2022, 7:24 pm

>38 RogerBlake: They have pinned posts on all their social media channels that still say Wed. But a tweet from earlier today...

40RRCBS
jun 11, 2022, 7:24 pm

>38 RogerBlake: there’s a post with the new date on twitter. A few people have commented to confirm that the date has been changed. No response thus far.

41English-bookseller
jun 13, 2022, 4:37 am

I am amused by this extensive use by The Folio Society of the potentially ambiguous description 'Limited Edition'.

After all you could say that Prince Andrew - who is the news again today - is a very 'Limited Edition' of his late father.

I shouldn't mock the efforts of the Folio Society's Marketing Department but setting a deliberate fixed limit on the number of copies of a book to be published doesn't seem right to me somehow.

42wcarter
jun 13, 2022, 7:38 am

Copied from a FS Facebook post -

GORMENGHAST date update:

There was a Tweet from FS last week giving the incorrect date for the pre-order going live - the tweet said Tues, that was an error and the tweet has been removed. Here’s the reply I got back from FS following my query over on FS-FB page:

Hi Chris,
Thanks for letting us know about this error! The initial posts across all platforms were correct, and our next limited edition will be available for pre-order on Wednesday 15 June at 2pm (UK time). We will remove the incorrect Tweet, apologies again for the confusion.

I hope that’s clear and dispels any consternation experienced by those confused - I include myself amongst their number.

43cwl
Redigerat: jun 13, 2022, 7:53 am

>41 English-bookseller: Seriously? The concept of a limited edition can be understood through primary school economics and has been in use for over a century at least.

44cronshaw
jun 13, 2022, 8:19 am

>41 English-bookseller: Prince Andrew as an edition can never be unambiguously limited enough, preferably pulped.

45Green_krkr
jun 13, 2022, 8:30 am

>41 English-bookseller: where’s the ambiguity? They’ve limited the production run.
The only ambiguity I see is with the regular editions, which are anything but unlimited.

46Shadekeep
jun 13, 2022, 8:48 am

>44 cronshaw: Seconded. And I too don't quite understand the original poster's issue with limited editions. Is it a problem with FS doing them, or with the concept itself? Or am I missing some particular wrinkle to FS's approach that makes it different?

47wcarter
Redigerat: jun 13, 2022, 9:13 am

As the title of this new "Gothic Mystery" LE has been confirmed by The Folio Society, the title of this thread has been changed as suggested by the OP >3 Caput_Lupinum:

48English-bookseller
jun 13, 2022, 10:16 am

>43 cwl: I ask why the Folio Society cannot issue future Limited Editions with the proviso that this is their first printing and they may publish another printing in say after two years.

The Society must put expensive work and scarce resource into a major Limited Edition and if seems a pity if they cannot at some stage re-publish it. It would also allow those who missed the first printing to be able to buy a new copy from the Folio Society a couple of years after they missed their chance with the first printing.

49English-bookseller
jun 13, 2022, 10:20 am

>46 Shadekeep: Apologies for my sense of humour but it was just a quick comment that the Limited Edition refers to copies of books which are beautifully designed and produced to exacting and expensive high standards. So in their quality they are really not limited…

50SF-72
jun 13, 2022, 10:27 am

>48 English-bookseller:

I wish it was that way, but a large part of being able to sell editions at often exaggerated prices is the fact that there's a limited availability. That doesn't just go for FS, of course. I find the concept irritating, too, since I really don't care how many other people have a beautiful edition. I just wish they were available to people who enjoy them even if they can't buy them right when they're originally published and can't afford the often crazy secondary prices. Without those artificial limitations, it's safe to say prices would also be more reasonable.

51Shadekeep
Redigerat: jun 13, 2022, 12:34 pm

>49 English-bookseller: I believe I get what you are saying now, your issue is with the quality of the limited editions and that they are not quite up to the standards of other publishers' limited. That does seem to hold some merit. I do believe however that reprinting limited editions pretty much torpedoes the point of making them limited, which is that "there will only ever be X copies of this edition in the world". It is artificial scarcity of a sort, and unfortunate that it does limit access to some very fine books. If I want to own a limited edition, it's because I like the book, not because it puts me in a private circle of the lucky few, so I don't care about limitations in that regard.

52terebinth
jun 13, 2022, 11:52 am

"But, says the scoffer, these limited editions and so forth foster the vile passions of competition. Well, and if they do? Is it not meet that men should strive together for such possessions? We compete for the allotments of shares in American-meat companies, we outbid each other for tickets 'to view the Royal procession,' we buffet at the gate of the football field, and enter into many another of the ignoble rivalries of peace; and are not books worth a scrimmage?" (Richard LeGallienne, from The Philosophy of Limited Editions, in Prose Fancies, 1894.

I confess I rarely seem to rise to the excitement of the thing, and probably the main occasions when a limitation has influenced me to buy a Folio book have been, with Mort a prime example, those where I knew almost nothing about the book to start with but could be confident of reclaiming my outlay were I to turn out not to have a use for it.

53What_What
Redigerat: jun 13, 2022, 12:31 pm

>48 English-bookseller: Then it wouldn’t be limited.

Plus they get to spend their limited time and other scarce resources in the pursuit of creating other, different books, rather than using the entire production process focused on years-old books.

54abysswalker
Redigerat: jun 13, 2022, 1:50 pm

To be fair, Folio does often {re,pre}print LEs in the form of slightly less luxurious standard editions, such as with The Book of the New Sun, Dune, Hill House, and so forth. This seems like a relatively customer-friendly middle ground.

Additionally, it's easy to armchair quarterback many of these business decisions, but demand can be finicky (see Rob Roy LE) and the setup costs for a fancy edition with premium flourishes is probably nontrivial, especially when considering things like signatures (New Sun), bindings and enclosures (Dante), etc. I certainly wouldn't presume to make those calculations on behalf of a company that is bearing the costs and risks.

I would like to see a return to LEs with more artisan oriented concerns (such as the Letterpress Shakespeare) as opposed to the recent minor bling approach (Hill House), but even there they are occasionally doing some unique productions, such as the Aurora Australis facsimile (I have no interest in this personally, but it does seem to have unique bibliophilic significance beyond the marketing of signed/numbered/limited).

55ultrarightist
jun 13, 2022, 1:22 pm

>54 abysswalker: "I would like to see a return to LEs with more artisan oriented concerns (such as the Letterpress Shakespeare) as opposed to the recent minor bling approach (Hill House)"

Agreed. I wonder how much of an influence Suntup has had on the new(ish) management at FS.

56antinous_in_london
Redigerat: jun 13, 2022, 4:03 pm

>55 ultrarightist: You mean the same letterpress Shakespeare series that took them 15 years (with reduced limitation numbers & numerous sales) to sell-through? While i agree with the sentiment, i can understand why the current management (which finally seems to be running the company at a profit) may not want to produce an artisan LE that takes over a decade to sell-through !

57Willoyd
jun 13, 2022, 7:00 pm

>54 abysswalker:
but demand can be finicky (see Rob Roy LE)

Not surprising - it's pretty horrid.

To be fair, Folio does often {re,pre}print LEs in the form of slightly less luxurious standard editions, such as with The Book of the New Sun, Dune, Hill House, and so forth.
Sadly, they never seem to be the ones I want! I'd certainly be interested in SE versions of the likes of Madame Bovary and Tristam Shandy. And not to have an SE version of Ulysses available in the centenary year is a wee bit disappointing.

58ultrarightist
jun 13, 2022, 8:03 pm

>56 antinous_in_london: No, not exactly like the Letterpress Shakespeare LE. I think FS made some fundamental market miscalculations, specifically wrt to limitation, required shelf space, and overall price. The limitation should have been set at 500 or 750 from the beginning, and to reduce cost (and thus price), multiple plays should have been included in each volume.

The main point is to orient the LE program toward Fine Press (i.e. traditional book craft), or at least alternate between Fine Press and machine produced popular titles. There are a number of Fine Press publishers who demonstrate the market viability of the craft.

59Shadekeep
jun 13, 2022, 10:53 pm

>57 Willoyd: I finally checked out Rob Roy on FS after hearing so much bad about it here. It is quite a questionable haul of illustration. The thing that struck me the most is that every single character apart from the titular Rob Roy looks like the same person. That person being a cross of H.P. Lovecraft and Tom Hiddleston. RR himself doesn't come off much better. I'm not sure what they were going for with the art, in all honesty. I suspect it's meant to be a fusion of styles, but one which only inherits the worst traits of each parent.

60antinous_in_london
Redigerat: jun 14, 2022, 9:25 am

>58 ultrarightist: I’m not sure there’s much evidence that FS has any desire at all to orient the LE’s or any other part of the company towards Fine Press - it seems to be perfectly happy doing what it’s doing currently. When they have produced actual letterpress volumes (even at reasonable prices like the Sappho) these haven’t exactly flown off the shelves. I just don’t see any evidence that FS wants the LE range to be a Lyra’s, St James Park Press, Arête etc.

61ultrarightist
jun 14, 2022, 10:17 am

>60 antinous_in_london: You seem to be confusing or conflating normative and positive arguments. I am not arguing what FS is doing or what FS management wants to do. I am positing what I want as a customer/consumer. My wants translate to my outlays, and I have outlaid far less to FS LEs recently than I have in the past because my wants have not been met.

62Shadekeep
jun 14, 2022, 10:24 am

When FS does produce letterpress works, where is this printing done? Do they have an in-house studio, or a regular partner, or is it handled on per-book basis?

63ultrarightist
jun 14, 2022, 10:40 am

>62 Shadekeep: FS outsources it like everything else related to book production, other than book design and typography. It is handled on a per-book basis. If I recall correctly, the Letterpress Shakespeare LE was outsourced to multiple letterpress printers (Hand & Eye was one of them).

64Shadekeep
jun 14, 2022, 10:44 am

65LesMiserables
jun 14, 2022, 3:51 pm

Anything other than a one-off printing, dissolves the 'limited' notion of an edition.

The plebeian editions, are the ideal solution to a limitation.

I just wouldn't buy an unlimited LE.

66antinous_in_london
jun 14, 2022, 9:12 pm

>61 ultrarightist: While your ‘main point is to orient the LE program toward Fine Press’ it seems FS management wish to orient the company in a different direction that does not align with your wishes. A company produces the product they want to produce & as a customer you then have a choice whether to spend your money with them or spend it with another company that fulfils your desires. I see little point in wishing a company to be what it does not want to be.

68RRCBS
jun 15, 2022, 6:24 am

>67 PeterFitzGerald: The original FS version is way more to my taste! Definitely a very different design!

69wcarter
jun 15, 2022, 6:24 am

£745 !!

70bacchus.
jun 15, 2022, 6:39 am

>68 RRCBS: I share the sentiment. Wouldn't mind picking this up as a SE though.

I'm curious if the open spine works in the long run - those threads look flimsy.

71DMulvee
jun 15, 2022, 6:39 am

I actually think this looks great! I ordered it even though I didn’t plan to.

72folio_books
jun 15, 2022, 6:41 am

>69 wcarter: £745 !!

Indeed. Despite the gloomy predictions.

73red_guy
jun 15, 2022, 6:44 am

>69 wcarter: And £25 postage!!

I'm not that keen on the box, but the rest is even nicer than I thought it was going to be ... so it will join my other Folio set with pride.

74wongie
jun 15, 2022, 6:47 am

750 is just about the window I was expecting it to be. It's a more flamboyant design than I was expecting from the teasers and the tiny smudgy image uploaded from another thread which meant an instant purchase for me. My rule of thumb for Folio books is that 9 times out of 10 it always looks better in person and I'm already loving the images as it is so this was a no brainer.

75red_guy
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 6:48 am

>72 folio_books: Yes, £250 a book, especially given the number of illustrations and the specialist binding isn't bad at all especially as the limitation is 750. I thought they'd go for 1000 on this one.

76rsmac
jun 15, 2022, 6:55 am

£745 for UK vs. $1150 US. Exchange rate pound to dollar £745 = $901. Yes, US customers - Folio is charging an extra $250 just because.

77jsg1976
jun 15, 2022, 6:55 am

$1150 US + $85 shipping, so ~$410/volume

78gmacaree
jun 15, 2022, 7:03 am

I think this looks stunning, might have to pick it up.

79rsmac
jun 15, 2022, 7:04 am

>77 jsg1976: I've seen the original Folio release second hand for $150. Seems like a smarter way to go rather than lose $250 for no good reason.

80folio_books
jun 15, 2022, 7:07 am

>75 red_guy: I thought they'd go for 1000 on this one.

So did I. I emailed one of my contacts after I'd seen the web page to say exactly that. And they'd sell a thousand easily.

81What_What
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 7:15 am

Do you mean 1,000 copies, or £1,000? At first I thought the latter, but on re-reading realized you likely meant they could have produced and sold 250 more. That’s what I get for checking the forums before coffee.

82cronshaw
jun 15, 2022, 7:13 am

The artwork looks fantastic, bravo Dave McKean! But I'm not a fan of open spines. They're fragile and so vulnerable to dirt and stains. I'm happy to wait for a standard edition with robust regular spines.

83Dr.Fiddy
jun 15, 2022, 7:18 am

I think it looks like a great production! Ordered 😊
Just hoping the spine won't cause any issues...

84Akes
jun 15, 2022, 7:18 am

It’s going for $1,450 CAD (or 942 GBP). A bit cost prohibitive unfortunately for me. I hope everyone who wants it enjoys. It’s a lovely edition.

85SF-72
jun 15, 2022, 7:18 am

I'm really not happy about the open spines, but the rest looks great. I just bought it.

A note for the Mole: I keep having issues during checkout, something that's happened before (and regularly), but was particularly bad today. I basically have to 'trick' the website to let me go to payment. Even though my address is given, it won't let me pick the type of shipping unless I catch that button at just the right second. This time even that didn't help because I was told to choose an address, which was already chosen, though. I had to try about 20 times, then finally caught the button to proceed to payment at just the right second to get to the next page. From then on it finally worked, right address and all. I don't know what's wrong there, but it's a bit of a nuisance.

86cronshaw
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 7:32 am

I'm sorry to see that Dave McKean's glorious artwork was obliged to incorporate the ill-matched standard FS logo on the box. In less corporate, more creative times, the 'FS' would have been artistically adapted to suit the style of the work. It sticks out like a MBA graduate's sore thumb here.

87wongie
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 7:33 am

>86 cronshaw: like with the Divine Comedy at least it's only incorporated on the box, thankfully it doesn't feature anywhere on the volume spines (like with Lord of the Rings) or on the title pages where the artists seemed to be allowed more free reign by using the stylized font for "Folio Society" Though like with virtually everyone else I'd rather they got rid of it completely for LEs and let the artist use a stylized monogram like ye old days.

88cronshaw
jun 15, 2022, 7:34 am

>87 wongie: True, and thank goodness! But it's so unnecessary and detracts otherwise from what is quite sublime artwork, a sad reminder of the primacy of the suits over the creatives.

89PartTimeBookAddict
jun 15, 2022, 7:34 am

Love the style! Very imaginative. I wish I loved the story as much as others. A really nice presentation for the fans though. I don't think this will last long.

90rsmac
jun 15, 2022, 7:35 am

>86 cronshaw: It would have been easy to make an "FS" or "FOLIO" as if part of the maze (but in black).

91SF-72
jun 15, 2022, 7:36 am

The McKean video on the article page is interesting. I wouldn't have recognised what he integrated into the labyrinth otherwise, at least not from the online pictures.

92assemblyman
jun 15, 2022, 7:46 am

Quite striking. I like the illustrations more than I thought I would and the interior layout seems very attractive but the spine would be the only thing I don't like about it. I'm still happy with getting the original FS edition in the future but I do quite like this release. A SE release of this in the future with a more standard spine binding would give me food for thought though.

93Charon49
jun 15, 2022, 7:51 am

Looks great but as a student I will in hope for a SE I can afford.

94folio_books
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 8:00 am

>78 gmacaree: I think this looks stunning, might have to pick it up.

If the interest generated in this pre-pre-order thread is any kind of a reliable indicator I'd advise you to move pretty quickly.

95mnmcdwl
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 8:12 am

>76 rsmac: I suspect the higher US costs are more than just because. A postal service and private couriers not exactly known for taking care of packages, probably more complaints (legitimate or not), and higher return costs I suspect all play a role. As a non-US customer, I'm glad those costs aren't passed on to everyone else. Let the costs of doing business in the US be born by US customers.

Incidentally, the language of this one was interesting in how they clearly noted differences may be present as a result of its handcrafted nature--they've clearly learned from the Lord of the Rings release... Regarding this edition however, I'll be passing. The artwork is imaginative but the open spine design (for that price!) gives me sufficient pause.

96rsmac
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 8:22 am

>95 mnmcdwl: I don't find this a compelling argument. If they package it properly then shipping it unscathed should not be an issue. $250 is not an insignificant amount of money. It seems greedy and contemptuous and frankly sours me a bit on Folio.

Also, if complaints from US customers are an issue, perhaps the US customers (and Aussies and Canadians) being charged more feel a right to be more discriminating in quality issues. For a premium price Folio has more of an obligation to get it absolutely right, no excuses.

97Joshbooks1
jun 15, 2022, 8:34 am

>95 mnmcdwl: I guess, but I'm sure you wouldn't be happy and begrudge US customers if Arion, Barbarian, Foolscap, Thornwillow, etc., charged an extra 20% to non-US customers... plus shipping. But I'm glad you don't have to pay such a ridiculous surcharge.

Maybe it's just me but strictly due to the fact that Folio charges such an insane overcharge to US customers I am much more picky with imperfections with their books than other fine press books I subscribe to - If they're charging me that much extra I expect perfection. And, ironically, for such a crazy fee to non-US customers, in my experience, they have the worst protection when it comes to shipping books.

98punkzip
jun 15, 2022, 8:41 am

>97 Joshbooks1: As an US customer, I agree about the US surcharge being unprecedented and since I'm being overcharged I do hold FS to a high standard. FWIW, last time I checked Canadians have it slightly worse and Aussies are overcharged the most. However, the LEs at least have the best shipping containers I've seen. Of course, you pay for this as well, as you cannot include other books with LE orders.

I ordered Gormenghast as despite the surcharge it was less expensive than I expected and the number of original illustrations is a LOT more than other FS books.

99punkzip
jun 15, 2022, 8:43 am

Gorgemghast was bound by Graphicom. Anyone know which other FS books if any have been bound by Graphicom?

100Shadekeep
jun 15, 2022, 8:43 am

I was hoping to like this one, but it's just not clicking for me in its final state. I'm glad that a lot of folks are liking it, though, this series deserves it. On the plus side for me, perhaps it will motivate some folks to get rid of their previous FS editions of the title and I can finally secure one of those!

101affle
jun 15, 2022, 8:53 am

>99 punkzip:

Recently among books I have, the Shackleton set, the Mme Bovary LE, and the Rabelais LE

102mnmcdwl
jun 15, 2022, 8:59 am

>97 Joshbooks1: That's true, though Thornwillow's shipping costs (as stated on the postage when I receive packages from them) are less than half what they charge me, so there is some padding there. Another difference between the publishers mentioned and Folio is who assumes the risk for currency fluctuations. For example, my copy of Thornwillow's Ulysses is 20% more expensive than when I pledged due to the strengthening of the USD. For that one, since it was priced in dollars, I took on the risk. For Folio Society however, since they offer local currency purchases, they assume the risk. If they set the price too low and the USD weakens against the pound, they may find themselves selling below cost. My larger point is that these decisions are not made in a vacuum, and we should be conscious of that.

103What_What
jun 15, 2022, 9:06 am

>102 mnmcdwl: Maybe I am missing something - where is the risk in using a spot rate for the GBP-USD conversion for a book that is ready to be purchased and shipped today (as most are, with this being an exception)?

104overthemoon
jun 15, 2022, 9:08 am

It looks terrific, as an object, but I have this niggly feeling that it is not comfortable to read, as a book. Perhaps it's the spines, it looks so sharp and boxy. Quite happy to stick with my old set.

105woodstock8786
jun 15, 2022, 9:12 am

The artwork is stunning! I love the magpie! The limited edition is too steep and I don’t trust the open spines.
This as a SE? I‘d buy it in an instant!
I hope there will be a SE

106jroger1
jun 15, 2022, 9:13 am

>95 mnmcdwl: “Let the costs of doing business in the US be born by US customers.”

Every other British or European company I do business with allows me to pay in the local currency, and then the credit card bank does the conversion, usually for a fee of 0%-2%. There is no risk to the company in this practice and they don’t gouge me as Folio does.

107mnmcdwl
jun 15, 2022, 9:13 am

>103 What_What: Nothing, but I suspect that many US customers aren't used to having prices change on a daily basis due to changes in currency. I am used to it, so while it is painful that my Arion subscription is 20% more expensive, I don't blame Arion for it. Folio has probably found that offering a fixed USD price (with some buffer) sells more books in the US than a spot rate price against GBP.

108gmacaree
jun 15, 2022, 9:15 am

>94 folio_books: Hah, yes. while I don't think this will sell at LotR rates, I'll be keeping a close eye on the counter.

109A.Godhelm
jun 15, 2022, 9:29 am

Lower price tag than I'd feared. Very novel design. A generous 142 illustrations. This is tempting but it'd be even more tempting as a SE sacrificing the open spine and special box.

110Joshbooks1
jun 15, 2022, 9:29 am

>107 mnmcdwl: That doesn't make much sense - the ignorant American who doesn't know how currency conversion works? I guess the same goes for Canadians and Australians as well? It's pure greed on Folio's part. I still buy limited editions from Folio but never any standard editions unless they are discounted during their biannual sale. Maybe you're a better person than I am but I'm always bitter and upset when I take it on the chin with Folio purchases.

111punkzip
jun 15, 2022, 9:33 am

Any ideas why FS does preorders for some LEs (this one, and Dante) while others are ready to ship right away?

112red_guy
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 9:36 am

I'm sure this must have been answered many times, but books in the UK don't attract VAT or sales tax. Doesn't that have something to do with it? Every time Apple releases a product in the UK there are howls at the difference in cost, which is almost entirely because Apple gives US prices without tax and the UK charges 20% VAT on electrical goods.

113coffeewithastraw
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 9:47 am

>77 jsg1976: plus tax!

This is on the edge for budget for me…on the fence argh. I wish I knew what the anniversary book will be.

Edit: I love the illustrations. I really want this as a SE.

114UK_History_Fan
jun 15, 2022, 9:37 am

>82 cronshaw: I completely agree. While this does look better than I was expecting, but I’m not a fan of the garish lettering or slipcase and the open spine design concerns me about future fragility. Plus my bank account is still recovering from the Lord of the Rings LE. I will pass on this and not feel too guilty about it. Perhaps I would consider an SE version in the future, if produced, but I’m quite happy with the older FS release with the Mervyn Peake illustrations. Particularly as I was fortunate around 2010 to see the exhibit of his original artwork at the British Museum.

To me this is very much like the recent Dante LE: an impressive publication but no compelling buy given existing editions in my library.

115Hamwick
jun 15, 2022, 10:01 am

I wasn’t sure I would like this, when I saw it was Dave McKean. I stand corrected, I think the illustrations look stunning, far better than I was expecting. I like the size of the 3 volumes as well. I too am in the U.S., it was not too long ago that the exchange rate was 1:1.3, so, not a huge difference, although I would prefer it if we could procure from the UK site and get it shipped to the US. The only negative for me is three open binding. It reminds me of damaged books being sold at car boot sale…

116ubiquitousuk
jun 15, 2022, 10:14 am

Very impressed with this book. It won't be for me because £750 is the kind of money I need to buy a serious private press book and I only use FS to buy cheap "reading copies". But I think I'd jump on an SE in the

117cronshaw
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 10:47 am

>112 red_guy: Thank you for reminding us about that. Since Folio has to collect sales tax for North American and Australian purchases, as well as absorb exchange rate fluctuations, that must go some way to explain the substantial difference in the prices payable in different regions. Having said that, I still don't understand quite why FS don't offer Americans, Canadians and Australians the opportunity to pay in pounds sterling, since the 'rest of the world' region can.

118NorthBank
jun 15, 2022, 10:47 am

....an utter fortune - but this is the kind of ambitious, commissioned illustration-heavy that could approach justifying the cost for FS Ltd.
Have just took the deep plunge.

The open spine of course allows for the illustrations to appear flat as the pages are turned, with a full 'book of wonder' reading plane....

As someone who has seen FS through the days, and still counts my Moby Dick Ltd Ed as one of the most brilliantly made books I've seen anywhere in the world....this Gormenghast does seem to be aiming at the same 'what we can do when we really really try' stratosphere....

119CobbsGhost
jun 15, 2022, 10:52 am

>105 woodstock8786:

After paying McKean, it surely will be an SE at some point.

120ChampagneSVP
jun 15, 2022, 11:08 am

>117 cronshaw: “Since Folio has to collect sales tax for North American and Australian purchases, as well as absorb exchange rate fluctuations, that must go some way to explain the substantial difference in the prices payable in different regions.”

Folio charges sales tax on top of their US price. It’s not included. So tack on another 6-10% depending on the state.

121cronshaw
jun 15, 2022, 11:13 am

>120 ChampagneSVP: Sorry, I didn't realise that. In which case the extra added cost seems wholly unreasonable.

122hoyasaxa
jun 15, 2022, 11:17 am

Low stock counter already on.

123jsg1976
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 11:20 am

>122 hoyasaxa: yeah, but at 491 remaining. So it’s moving impressively, but still 2/3 of the limitation to go. You’d think they’d wait until 150 remaining or something like that, given the low limitation to start with.

124kdweber
jun 15, 2022, 11:20 am

>120 ChampagneSVP: Not only does FS charge sales tax but they unnecessarily charge sales tax on the shipping cost.

125penitent
jun 15, 2022, 11:23 am

I know I’m in the minority here. I do love the art but I find the “whole package” final product stunningly ugly. I may be wrong, but they look like books that will be cumbersome to hold and read comfortably. Happy to keep my old battered edition for now.

126AnnieMod
jun 15, 2022, 11:30 am

>125 penitent: I was just about to pits the same. The art looks fine but the books look weirdly ugly. Oh well - one less temptation. :)

127Jayked
jun 15, 2022, 11:42 am

The Canadian tax applied by Folio is on the already inflated selling price, plus the inflated postage cost, making the product not worth the money or the hassle in comparison to what's available elsewhere. I haven't bought anything from FS for over two years, though I own upwards of 600 Folios, and don't expect to anytime soon. I do buy regularly from UK publishers such as Fleece Press, Slightly Foxed, Little Toller, Thames and Hudson etc., all of whom charge in pounds sterling, with no tax, reasonably priced and efficient mail service, and high quality. I've never had to return a damaged book to any other publisher. Think on, mole.

128Cat_of_Ulthar
jun 15, 2022, 11:45 am

Pleasantly surprised at the price because I was one of those who anticipated it being in the £1000+ range.

I agree with >74 wongie: that '9 times out of 10 it always looks better in person and I'm already loving the images as it is so this was a no brainer.'

Duly ordered.

129coynedj
jun 15, 2022, 11:59 am

I'll join the "it looks better than I expected" crowd. The open spine is a worry, but if I didn't already have the previous edition I would be waiting with money in hand to buy an SE version of this. The illustrations appear quite fitting for the material.

130Shadekeep
jun 15, 2022, 12:04 pm

>125 penitent: That's largely my take as well, though I also prefer the art used in the previous edition to this one (though I don't hate the art in this one by any means). I think if this comes out as more standard-bound SE I will pick it up. I'm all for adventurous design choices, but this one seems a bit off kilter. Most of my open-spine books are much smaller and simpler.

131LondonLawyer
jun 15, 2022, 12:37 pm

As regards US pricing, I expect the Folio view is just some version of: "you folk can afford it".

If the UK were a US state, we'd be competing for poorest state* with Mississippi - and that's with London, a global financial centre, included.

To an averagely well-off American (and probably the typical Folio customer), $1150 will feel like quite a bit less money than £750 feels to an averagely well-off Brit. For example, a top 1% income in the UK is around £180k. A top 1% income in the US is around $600k. I appreciate this is a crude comparison because things like taxes, healthcare systems and student debt can be very different, but not *that* different.

I'm not trying to justify anything , but just offering a few thoughts as to the thinking that may lie behind pricing strategy.

* Based on GDP per capita, adjusted for PPP

132cpg
jun 15, 2022, 12:48 pm

"Open-spine bindings of which loose threads are a feature "

If you have to say it, maybe it's not much of a feature.

133SDB2012
jun 15, 2022, 12:51 pm

>131 LondonLawyer: Interesting. I wouldn't have guessed that. Is London still one of the world's most expensive cities? In the US, a dollar goes a lot farther in middle America where I live versus the coastal megacities. But, you're also correct in that healthcare and education costs aren't comparable. For a self-employed person with a family, between insurance, copays, and noncovered expenses, healthcare can easily run $40-50,000 US dollars in a year if you need it.

134whytewolf1
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 1:11 pm

>124 kdweber: Actually, most states require you to charge taxes on combined shipping and handling charges, as they consider it at least a potential profit center.
https://www.avalara.com/blog/en/north-america/2022/02/how-to-handle-sales-tax-on...

>132 cpg: Seems to me that was more about heading off what some would perceive as a flaw and would complain about.

135LondonLawyer
jun 15, 2022, 1:17 pm

>133 SDB2012: London is indeed a very expensive city. I'm not sure how it compares with Bay Area or NYC but I think it's fairly similar.

If you were to run stats on UK-ex-London, you'd find a much poorer country with substantially lower real estate costs, but most other living costs being the same as London.

136Uppernorwood
jun 15, 2022, 1:37 pm

>86 cronshaw: we’re like broken records on this subject, but FS obviously don’t care unfortunately

137Uppernorwood
jun 15, 2022, 1:41 pm

My sympathy for Americans being ripped off by Folio Society pricing is limited, the same happens to us Brits with American made products. That’s if they even sell to the UK.

Just a perk/disadvantage of living in our respective countries. Be grateful you don’t live elsewhere.

138jroger1
jun 15, 2022, 1:45 pm

>131 LondonLawyer: “As regards US pricing, I expect the Folio view is just some version of: "you folk can afford it".

Sounds like they think we’re still colonies. We won a war that began over tax and tariff issues.

I wonder how many of Folio’s customers are in the top 1%.

139JohnPotten
jun 15, 2022, 2:09 pm

>138 jroger1: I know im not!

140DMulvee
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 4:11 pm

>138 jroger1: Whilst FS deserve brickbats for their pricing to other countries the reverse does happen. I was about to support a book on Kickstarter earlier this week from a US creator. The price was $60 and the shipping to the US was $12, when I changed the country of delivery to the U.K. it went to $126 (so a total of $186).

Part of me wonders if they took a look at the USD/GBP exchange rate a year ago (1.41) and are just using this and haven’t checked the market again more recently

141Shadekeep
jun 15, 2022, 2:29 pm

>138 jroger1: I think the only 1% I'm in is "people who think rutabaga is a mandatory Thanksgiving side dish".

142Juniper_tree
jun 15, 2022, 3:42 pm

>138 jroger1:, most probably are, on a global scale that is.

143astropi
jun 15, 2022, 5:23 pm

>141 Shadekeep: don't think I've ever had rutabaga on Thanksgiving. Also I'll wait for the inevitable SE that will more or less be the same as the LE sans the signatures, limitation number, and prohibitive cost.

144Green_krkr
jun 15, 2022, 6:02 pm

I’ll wait for the inevitable SE.

145L.Bloom
jun 15, 2022, 6:29 pm

This thing strikes me as very Suntup-like in it's design

146astropi
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 7:13 pm

>145 L.Bloom: Hmmm, how so? The design reminds me of the FS's LE Dante. I think both LEs are lovely, but the cost is prohibitive. Also, considering the crazy inflation and other economic issues facing the USA and world at the moment, well, one can't just spend $1300+ on books. Unless of course one is in the 1%... which sadly I'm not :)

While I did not order the set, I was curious as to the total cost to ship to the USA - here it is:


For the record, that's £1100 - a far cry from £750


Also, anyone remember the time when the FS actually let you pay in installments...

147CobbsGhost
jun 15, 2022, 9:12 pm

>146 astropi:

Ah yes, installments... Well, Folio has been ratcheting up their rip off America tentacles for a while, because unlike all the other pretentious Western nations, our oikophobic/idiotic thought leaders and criminal politicians have only sucked and redistributed half the wealth...

148What_What
Redigerat: jun 15, 2022, 10:19 pm

>146 astropi: Meople have only Suntup books as a reference point for what they imagine to be good examples of fine press books. Likely this set is drawing comparisons to Blood Meridian because of this.

149strangenews
jun 16, 2022, 2:15 am

Det här meddelandet har tagits bort av dess författare.

150Uppernorwood
jun 16, 2022, 2:21 am

>138 jroger1: nasty redcoats forcing you to buy their books!

151ubiquitousuk
jun 16, 2022, 3:11 am

I think Folio needs to charge American customers more to cover the equally ridiculous price premiums they are charged on all the consumer electronics they buy from US companies.

152sekhmet0108
jun 16, 2022, 3:36 am

I wish this thread was less about the pricing for americans than it is about the Gormenghast LE. Please start a separate thread about it, if it's a discussion everyone really wants to have.

Coming back to the LE, I loved the look of it and got it yesterday itself. It will definitely sell out over the weekend and i think can be considered a (yet another!) hit for FS.

I might have been concerned about the open spine if the slipcase was of a more regular variety. But the only time one will take the books out would be to either admire them or read them. Eitherways, it is not enough time for them to gather dust. The rest of the time they can live safely in the pretty box.

I think that this is a real success in terms of design, illustrations and even the choice of books. Moreover the price point is more palatable.

153Cat_of_Ulthar
jun 16, 2022, 4:12 am

>138 jroger1:
I might be in the 1% that didn't hate Rob Roy but I'm certainly not part of the 1% wealthwise.

>152 sekhmet0108:
Half the copies have gone in under 24 hours so I suspect it won't last until the weekend.

I'm guessing one reason for the fully-enclosed box rather than a slipcase is to protect those open spines from dust and other nasties. It also looks more solid than the LoTR slipcase which, for me, was one of the weak points of that set: it felt a bit flimsy for such a large, heavy set of books.

Very much looking forward to getting the books in my hands :-)

154LondonLawyer
jun 16, 2022, 4:26 am

Sorry if I've missed it earlier in the thread, but does anyone know why they're opening up pre-orders now for July delivery rather than just, y'know, releasing it in July?

155DMulvee
Redigerat: jun 16, 2022, 5:20 am

>154 LondonLawyer: I’m not sure but if customers have a limited amount of money, the FS would probably prefer they buy a LE at full price rather than sale items where the profit margins might be lower, so it could be argued this needed to come before the sale? (This is a weak argument if the book is likely to sell out no matter what)

ETA: Dante Divine Comedy was similar, ordering in September for delivery in October so my previous musings are probably wrong

156ubiquitousuk
jun 16, 2022, 6:40 am

Anyone else notice the slightly defensive tone of some of the description of the book?

"Open-spine bindings of which loose threads are a feature " … "With such craft processes, variances between sets are inevitable and add to the uniqueness of this stunning limited edition."

I'm wondering if this is partly an attempt to head-off what Folio judges to be occasionally spurious requests for return.

157wongie
Redigerat: jun 16, 2022, 6:52 am

>156 ubiquitousuk: I definitely see some element of that in there but also certainly see Folio trying to provide some explanation of what people should/can expect from this form of binding which isn't particularly widely used especially for the more casual book collector who is more interested in this more for the title than from a fine press/binding collecting perspective like say with something more esoteric like Studies from Nature which is also open-spine.

I've noticed a lot comments in fantasy circles critical of the recent standard letterpress edition of The Blade Itself as overpriced because it wasn't a full leather binding like what most fantasy "collector" editions are that feature poor faux leather (as opposed to goatskin such as on the far more expensive numbered edition), and completely glossing over the letterpress component of the production, since that is what that segment of the market expects. In such a case I don't blame Folio for trying to give some background as to the nature of open-spine bindings.

158red_guy
Redigerat: jun 16, 2022, 7:01 am

If anyone is worried about the durability of an open spine binding, be reassured that my Polpo open spined cookery book (mentioned in the other Gormenghast LE thread) has had ten years of quite vigorous use living on open shelves in a badly-ventilated kitchen with no ill effects whatsoever. The paper has yellowed a bit from the high wood pulp content, but that's it. It only attracts the same amount of dust as any other book, and no special care is needed.

An LE kept in a box with, if it's lucky, about five readings and a few hours of gleeful gloating will never be in any danger.

159tkellici
jun 16, 2022, 8:35 am

I asked about the spine in their youtube video. This was their response. Hope it helps.

"Hi! Each of these sets have been carefully crafted at Graphicom in Italy, with one special quality being the open-spine binding. The page sections of each volume are printed, folded and gathered to create the title from small marks on the fold of each signature, giving a uniquely hand-drawn effect, and the loose threads on the spines are a feature of this technique. While not widely used, it is a long-established technique and produces sturdy and durable books - our books are made to be read and enjoyed! It also means that you can lay the books entirely flat while reading. For this edition of The Gormenghast Trilogy, the binding threads are secured with a protective layer for additional strength. I hope this helps, but if you have any further questions, please do contact us at customerservice@foliosociety.com."

160Shadekeep
jun 16, 2022, 8:42 am

>143 astropi: Do you think the SE version will be open-spine as well, or are they likely to revert to a more traditional binding, both for production reasons and to differentiate between editions?

161punkzip
jun 16, 2022, 9:02 am

>157 wongie: "I've noticed a lot comments in fantasy circles critical of the recent standard letterpress edition of The Blade Itself as overpriced"

Completely ignorant. The standard CK Blade Itself was the single best value in recent memory.

162EPsonNY
jun 16, 2022, 10:03 am

1. Is it possible that the spine titles of the copies displayed in the photos have been manually re-touched with a marker or pencil before being photographed, or digitally enhanced afterward... For comparison, or better view, please check "Dave McKean on illustrating" video and pause at 3:04. I acknowledge, the video copy may be a still to be refined demo-...

2. Also, are the threads structurally crucial so that if one of them breaks text block sections are at risk of coming apart?

163terebinth
jun 16, 2022, 10:21 am

>162 EPsonNY: ...are the threads structurally crucial so that if one of them breaks text block sections are at risk of coming apart?

Seems inevitable - there's no obvious opportunity for anything else to be holding the pages in their signatures, or binding the signatures to one another.

164folio_books
jun 16, 2022, 10:44 am

Where's >158 red_guy: when you need him? ;)

165red_guy
jun 16, 2022, 10:51 am

>164 folio_books: Speak and he appears!

But seriously, it seems to be a surprisingly sturdy binding method, and unless they were to attack it with a Stanley knife, I'm sure it will survive the respectful fingers of any Devotee.

166dexterpalmer
Redigerat: jun 16, 2022, 11:33 am

Longtime lurker on this forum, first time poster--I ended up ordering this one even at its painful price. I love the Gormenghast novels and McKean's art anyway, but the tiny thing that pushed me over the edge was seeing both the lie-flat binding and the fact that some illustrations cover two pages--a future standard edition might have gutter loss for those illustrations if it is conventionally bound. Not the worst thing in the world if that turns out to be the case--I have plenty of graphic novel/comics omnibuses with gutter loss for double-page spreads--but it did appear to me that for this LE, the illustrations take the book's odd design into account and vice versa.

Edited to add: on the other hand, I just checked my SE of A Bright Shining Lie and the two-page spreads in that seem perfectly fine. Still happy with my purchase—these'll be the only books I own that are bound in this way—but I can understand waiting/hoping for an SE.

167folio_books
jun 16, 2022, 11:32 am

>166 dexterpalmer: Longtime lurker on this forum, first time poster

Joined LT in 2010, I see. That's a lot of lurking! Anyway, welcome to the mayhem. I happily confess, out of a host of good reasons to buy this LE, the lie-flat binding was near the top of my list especially, as you say, with those illustrations. You can picture me in just a few weeks purring contentedly as I flip from double-page spread to double-page spread, gurgling ever so softly.

168dexterpalmer
jun 16, 2022, 11:40 am

>167 folio_books: Ha--funny thing, I only found when attempting to open an LT account this morning that I'd done so twelve years ago and completely forgotten about it. Anyway, thanks for the welcome!

169What_What
jun 16, 2022, 12:37 pm

>154 LondonLawyer: Maybe they need the cash. They’ve likely been working on this for a long time. Hopefully they don’t increase these preorder times too much - one of the best things about Limited editions is you don’t have to wait too long to enjoy them after ordering.

170SF-72
jun 16, 2022, 1:13 pm

>156 ubiquitousuk:

I know that kind of thing from clothes where irregularities in the cloth or the colouring are just part of the natural and hand-made quality, but can be seen be inexperienced buyers as a flaw. Better to head this off before it leads to issues.

171SF-72
jun 16, 2022, 1:16 pm

>157 wongie:

Totally clueless, which is unfortunate, but you can see where those people who complain are coming from when it comes to book-collecting. The standard edition is an excellent offering, especially since they added the author's signature to it, which was the one thing I really preferred in the numbered edition. (It speaks for the publisher and the author that they decided to go this way.) I regret not getting a numbered edition because the system wouldn't let me check out with one due to that programming error, but I'm really looking forward to my standard edition despite that. I might even enjoy it more since I prefer cloth to leather.

172SDB2012
Redigerat: jun 16, 2022, 1:34 pm

>157 wongie:
>161 punkzip:
Indeed. Compare it to the Suntup Slaughterhouse Five announced today. The CK is more than twice as long and less than half the price with as least as much art, potentially more. I was a little slow to get on the CK bandwagon until I saw who was printing the books and binding them as well as their upcoming publications. The proof will be in the books but I'm optimistic they'll be great.

Edit: I get the KV book is a lot more famous and important.

173astropi
Redigerat: jun 16, 2022, 4:07 pm

>160 Shadekeep: I think they'll use traditional binding for the SE. My guess is that it will be one large volume, priced between $175-225.

174ultrarightist
jun 16, 2022, 4:18 pm

>173 astropi: That would be a massive volume. I doubt they would do that. Maybe 2 volumes.

175Shadekeep
jun 16, 2022, 4:40 pm

>173 astropi: Thanks! I'd prefer it in three volumes, but we shall see.

176astropi
jun 16, 2022, 5:30 pm

>174 ultrarightist: You might very well be correct. Although the FS certainly has printed singe volumes that are around 800 pages. I suppose it depends on a number of factors, but perhaps two-volumes will be more manageable. Before this LE their 1992 edition was three volumes. If they release a three-volume SE I suspect it will be at least $225.

177Cat_of_Ulthar
jun 17, 2022, 12:10 pm

Sales have slowed since the initial spurt. 333 copies left now, so it might well last through the weekend.

178punkzip
Redigerat: jun 18, 2022, 12:30 pm

Will definitely last through the weekend, maybe for a week or two. Sold quickly the first 24 hours then slowed down a lot. Probably will pick up again once it drops below 100.

Looks like the economy is slowing sales for expensive limited books, almost across the board. A lot of bad news this week.

179cronshaw
jun 18, 2022, 5:38 pm

>178 punkzip: Those saving their book tokens in Bitcoin will probably be looking for standard edition rather than limited edition fantasy from now on.

180Kainzow
jun 19, 2022, 12:38 am

181antinous_in_london
Redigerat: jun 19, 2022, 8:29 am

There’s actually one on eBay UK already, on sale for £1300 - so shameless when its still available at £750 !

182folio_books
jun 19, 2022, 8:52 am

>181 antinous_in_london: so shameless when its still available at £750 !

And not due to ship until July.

183kb-42
jun 19, 2022, 2:18 pm

another easy pass for me, although I'm rather curious what comes next; a bookless spine with marbled endpapers maybe

184ultrarightist
jun 19, 2022, 11:40 pm

>183 kb-42: Perhaps they will unite it with the Gormenghast LE in unholy matrimony.

185Shadekeep
jun 21, 2022, 8:47 am

Still quite a few left, more than 300 as of this morning here in the States. Not to rekindle the debate over the design, but looking at the banner image of the books on the FS home page, it really does look dissonant to me now. Moreso than when I first saw it. The design looks almost in direct opposition to the feel of the novels, and seems more suited to something like The Hunger Games or The VALIS Trilogy. I'm all for innovation and bold design, but at the same time, if anything was meant to be printed in the style of archaic tomes, it's Gormenghast.

186punkzip
jun 21, 2022, 9:41 am

>185 Shadekeep: I prefer the design of Gormenghast to the very conventional design of the LOTR LE. The slowing of sales likely has nothing to do with the design, but rather the high price (particularly for NA/Aus buyers) relative to current economic conditions.

187Shadekeep
jun 21, 2022, 10:23 am

>186 punkzip: While I don't think it's an intrinsically bad design, I do think it might be off-putting to some folks who would otherwise jump at these books, even at this price. For myself I would love a great edition of Gormenghast, but this one doesn't do it for me. The price is not the obstacle for me, and in fact I would pause to pay even one tenth the price for this version. That being said, if other folks love it, more power to them. But I do think the design is impacting purchasing to a not-insignificant degree.

But I do agree the market downturns are part of the slower sales on this one. Plus this doesn't have nearly the pop cultural breakthrough that LotR has, so it's not reasonable to expect it to sell at the same rate.

188red_guy
Redigerat: jun 21, 2022, 11:20 am

>185 Shadekeep: You want archaic? This type of open binding first appeared in the 2nd century AD ...

And if this set doesn't impress, Abe has a leather bound set of first editions for just under £400, which might suit you better. It's an amazing deal! :

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30081247997&searchurl=xp...

I would expect the next surge in purchases will come when the sale opens, and potential buyers see if there is anything else they might want. In any case, selling over half in the first week doesn't mean that it is a failure!

189Shadekeep
Redigerat: jun 21, 2022, 11:28 am

>188 red_guy: Aye, stab binding and Coptic binding and their ilk go way back. I was thinking archaic more in the sense of heavy leather-over-board bindings with ominous brass clasps. ^_^

And I don't think the book is selling poorly, it's just selling to a somewhat different demographic than it might with a more traditional (for this sort of book) binding. But then one could argue that would equally put off those who are drawn to the new binding. I am never a good barometer for what the public wants, so I can only speak to my own tastes in the matter. In all honesty I would be perfectly content with a reissue of FS's previous take on these books. But again, I'm happy for the folks who do like this new approach.

190ultrarightist
jun 21, 2022, 12:47 pm

The LE prompted me to acquire the SE from the '90s. Great set with fantastic illustrations. If the castle is itself a major character in the story, then the illustrations capture it perfectly.

191What_What
jun 21, 2022, 12:55 pm

>188 red_guy: Looks like someone nabbed it!

192bacchus.
jun 21, 2022, 1:57 pm

>185 Shadekeep: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that jazz but I agree. I welcome the new illustrations but I believe the vibrant binding, splashing and off-kilter font would be more suited to a Philip K. Dick novel..



193Nightcrawl
Redigerat: jun 21, 2022, 2:03 pm

>186 punkzip: Agreed. I would definitely attribute the slowing of sales to the price and current state of the economy. Maybe the relative obscurity of the books as well (at least compared to LotR)…I think it has little to nothing to do with the design.

194SF-72
jun 21, 2022, 2:12 pm

>189 Shadekeep:

I bought it despite the binding, not because of it, which is less than ideal. But the rest really pulled me in.

195rsmac
jun 21, 2022, 2:30 pm

It was the same issue with the PKD shorts volume - same color scheme. I don't know how this La Boca person got through his (or her?) color theory class in design school and still thinks that deep blue, deep red, and bright lime green go together. Add a black and silver slipcase as in the PKD shorts volume and it's all pretty garish.

Folio can try as they might to sell that as "quirky" but to my eye it is cheap looking and gross.

196Shadekeep
jun 21, 2022, 2:36 pm

>192 bacchus.: Exactly. If you just showed me one of the covers sans text and asked me to guess what novel it was for, it would be many, many guesses before I ever got around to Gormenghast.

>194 SF-72: Aye, it would be great if you liked the product all-around, rather than it being a compromise of sorts (especially at that price). Unfortunately all I have are anecdotes like yours and not any hard numbers as to whether the book design is having a real impact on sales, so I can only offer a guess that it's a factor but not state so categorically. All things being equal, I do prefer publishers to take a chance and do more experimental work like this. Just because it doesn't work for me this time doesn't mean I want them to stop - that way lies stagnation. I only have a strong opinion this time because I really want a good version of these novels for myself, and am chafing that I missed the previous offering.

197astropi
jun 21, 2022, 4:19 pm

>195 rsmac: The PKD 4-volume complete short stories was absolutely exquisite. Aside from great illustrations, the color-scheme was unique and wonderful. That said, clearly that's my opinion and I respect yours as well. Point is, people have many different tastes and I think it's great for the FS to do things that are not the same binding, design, illustrations, etc. If I had the money, or if the FS had an option for installments, I would have been very happy to purchase the LE Gormenghast.

198RogerBlake
jun 21, 2022, 4:25 pm

I actually like this more than LOTR despite being put off initially by the open spine. I decided to miss LOTR and given all the issues with leather glad I did. I wasn't keen on the fussy borders to the illustrations which I thought too light coloured anyway. With Gormenghast I rather like the style and also the way they have been integrated with the text. Just hoping it won't not sell and be in a sale in a few years 'cause then I'd be ever so slightly cross!

Interesting to see that the many copies of the SE on Ebay have now been sold apart from one rather pricey set.

199rsmac
jun 21, 2022, 4:38 pm

>197 astropi: The four volume Dick LE colors didn't bother me because they were all a similar bright neon so worked together and the Ubik also worked to my eye because they were both bright pink and green with a bright silver so it seemed to go together.

It was specifically the clash of the deeper, richer red and blue with the bright lime green in "Do Androids..." and the PKD shorts that clashed. I guess on the shorts the whole thing didn't work for me because the cover design itself looked like a uninspired 1990s science textbook as designed by someone color blind and had little relation to the lime green edge "eyes" design.

I did look at La Boca's website and this designer seems to like that 80s/90s look but most of the designs weren't as bad.

200boldface
jun 24, 2022, 7:35 am

I'm hoping they'll issue a SE shortly, with the same illustrations but a more conventional and less garish binding. That I could go for.

201folio_books
jun 24, 2022, 8:31 am

>197 astropi: if the FS had an option for installments, I would have been very happy to purchase the LE Gormenghast.

The demise of Folio's instalment plans more or less coincided with the launch of Paypal Credit, which I have happily used to fill the gap on many occasions since, including Gormenghast.

202coffeewithastraw
jun 24, 2022, 9:49 am

203Willoyd
jun 24, 2022, 5:20 pm

>194 SF-72:
I bought it despite the binding, not because of it, which is less than ideal. But the rest really pulled me in.

Most of it looks really good, even if I do actually prefer the SE. However, the spine is, for me, a complete disaster. This is the bit that's going to show most of the time, and it just doesn't work. It's particularly bad when the books are out of the slip case, and all you've got is that ghastly black and white strip breaking up the colour. Sorry to fans, but to me it looks cheap and nasty.

204astropi
jun 24, 2022, 8:11 pm

I am actually curious, did the FS state why they choose to the binding the way they did? That is, in the PKD short stories they explain their choice of the very bright colors and patterns etc. I would imagine there has to be some reason, related to the books themselves, that the FS decided to incorporate open-spine bindings?

205punkzip
jun 24, 2022, 8:26 pm

>204 astropi: I'm not sure if this was explicitly stated anywhere, but isn't it so the illustrations,many of which have been specifically designed to cover more than one page, can lie flat? That's what makes this LE distinctive - a large number of original illustrations with a binding designed to display them.

206red_guy
jun 25, 2022, 6:48 am

>204 astropi: >205 punkzip: At 3.10 in the film about illustrating Gormenghast, Dave McKean says about them 'They feel 'other' don't they? They're definitely books but they have a strange quality all their own'.

Sorry to keep dragging my wretched cookery book into the thread, but he's exactly right, and once you handle an open spine bound book, you will see what he means. We have spent our lives expecting books to work and feel a particular way, so when you come across a different solution, it really does feel 'other'. Not just for the flat two page illustration spreads and the bizarre complete flatness of the pages as they are turned, but also the fact that the left and right sides of the book are essentially the same, and without the normal apparatus of a standard binding and spine the thing becomes a complete cuboid, which is quite odd to behold.

So in my view, definitely not a gimmick, but an interesting design choice and the thing which will set the LE apart from the SE - which I am sure will be very nice, - three x £90 books (+ doubtless £30 for luck) in a conventional slipcase but it will be a different beast, and the double page spreads will not be as effective.

The only thing I'm not keen on is the typography on the LE slipcase spine. Using a reduced version of the title page lettering does not read well or strike the right note. Too punk-y. I would have gone with something like a coat of arms or used the font from the spines of the books themselves, similarly distressed.

207RogerBlake
Redigerat: jul 3, 2022, 6:21 pm

Two-thirds now sold !

So get your copy while stocks last!
:-)

208astropi
Redigerat: jul 3, 2022, 8:25 pm

>207 RogerBlake: I'm happy for the FS that this is selling decently fast, but I just can't justify the price for what I'm getting. Keep in mind I'm in the USA, and after taxes and shipping I would pay about 150% retail price. Easy pass, and I would imagine many international customers feel the same. Too bad. I hope in the future the FS changes their policy on how they treat intentional customers or they risk alienating all but the very wealthy.

209EPsonNY
jul 4, 2022, 4:57 pm

Can an open/exposed binding book be safely read by being held in two hands i.e. when one is reading while sitting on a couch or lying down in bed, rather than by always being laid on a flat rigid surface like book stand, reading desk etc.? I am concerned about the stability of the binding...

I cannot find the answer online and FS video shows FS editor and the illustrator either carefully "squeezing" the volumes with their fingers or McKean flipping the pages while one of the volumes rests flat on his desk...

210HamburgerHelper
jul 4, 2022, 5:29 pm

211PeterFitzGerald
jul 19, 2022, 9:22 am

I have just had a shipping notification for Gormenghast and a DPD notification saying it is due for delivery tomorrow.

212folio_books
jul 19, 2022, 10:29 am

213SF-72
jul 19, 2022, 2:05 pm

Mine's due next Monday via DHL Express.

214RogerBlake
jul 20, 2022, 8:35 am

It's just arrived - copy 102! (Usually I get something like copy 987!)

I'll open the box in a while - after a nice cup of tea! I know my priorities :-)

215wongie
jul 20, 2022, 8:43 am

I'm quite disappointed in my number. Bought within the first hour yet got 501. Seems Folio have reverted back to the completely random assignment system.

216PeterFitzGerald
jul 20, 2022, 8:50 am

>215 wongie: "Seems Folio have reverted back to the completely random assignment system."

I may be wrong, but it often seems to work like this when you have to pre-order. When they're despatching them as the orders come in, they seem to be a lot better at assigning limitation numbers in (rough) order. I guess in a case like this they probably just give the warehouse a list of the 500-odd pre-orders, in no particular sequence.

217wongie
Redigerat: jul 20, 2022, 10:46 am

Here are some general first impressions from the last couple of hours going over my copy as well a few shots focusing on bits that aren't shown on the website, such as visual size comparisons with other volumes (around the average Folio size) and close ups of the binding and illustration samples.

Packaging for their heavy LEs continues to be sturdy, should be no problems for shipping within the UK. The set weighs 7kg so on the heavier end.

One aspect I didn't like was how all three volumes were wrapped in protective paper together instead of individually which makes it rather difficult to get out for the first time. You have to tilt the entire case forward and let all 3 books gently slide out.

FS seem to have perhaps learnt some lessons from their Divine Comedy case which I noted in my initial thoughts upon receiving it that Inferno, being the book that rests against the flap, would fall out when opening it with the case standing upright. You needed to have laid the case flat first to ensure it wouldn't fall out. From the images below FS now has added a lip on the outer side so the flap can be opened whilst still upright without any risk of Titus Groane falling out.

They didn't skimp out on cover art, both front and back feature illustrations printed on the more smoother variety of cloth (think Book of the New Sun LE). I've included a number of shots of various illustrations from the double spreads to the smaller end to help give a more wider impression of McKean's artwork not shown on the website. I haven't read Gormenghast before so without any context the style doesn't seem particularly offensive to my eyes and in some instances rather appealing. I'll leave judgement over the lack of emphases over the castle to a focus on character for those who have read them. Whilst all three books clearly follow the same style each book uses a distinct colour palette.

As for the elephant in the room; the spine is particularly sturdy, all the threads are glued over which will most certainly reduce the chances of loose threads splaying. Definitely not for those who hate the texture of dried PVA, and perhaps not for those with OCD; the loose threads are glued down as is helping to create the overall chaotic look.

I've done a little stress test video that can been see here: https://i.imgur.com/A5Bo90H.mp4
Nothing too rigorous but still more force that I'd imagine most volumes would be subjected to on a regular basis. Maybe not for the too faint of heart. I'm certainly convinced by my grievous bindily harm that they will hold up very well. Given that, as mentioned, the entire spine face is glued down I can see any issues with threads somehow escaping their prison could be a relatively easy patch up job for those who don't mind a little DIY with some PVA glue lying around.

Not a proper review but as a first impression there doesn't seem anything that would make me regret handing over £745.

Any other pictures of particular questions people have feel free to ask.




























218folio_books
jul 20, 2022, 10:40 am

>209 EPsonNY: Can an open/exposed binding book be safely read by being held in two hands i.e. when one is reading while sitting on a couch or lying down in bed, rather than by always being laid on a flat rigid surface like book stand, reading desk etc.?

I don't know about open bindings in general but this one certainly can. It was the first test I gave it out of the box and it performed flawlessly. Lie it down flat and the pages open flat. Pick it up and peruse it like a normal book and it behaves, well, like a normal book. Flip back and forward, open it to a particular page. It's just a normal book. On first acquaintance I'm highly delighted with it. Perhaps a bit relieved, too ;)

219folio_books
jul 20, 2022, 10:46 am

>217 wongie: Not a proper review

For not a proper review you did an excellent job, particularly with the pictures. I think we can sit back and watch the counter on the web page fall steadily.

220Cat_of_Ulthar
jul 20, 2022, 11:19 am

>217 wongie:, >219 folio_books: 'For not a proper review you did an excellent job, particularly with the pictures. I think we can sit back and watch the counter on the web page fall steadily.'

Agreed.

Very much looking forward to my copy arriving in the next day or two :-)

221Joshbooks1
jul 20, 2022, 11:27 am

Thanks for the pictures. It looks nice - I like the illustrations, layout, and it appears well put together, but, does it look $1300usd nice? Not at all. If I lived in the UK I'd probably buy it (for $400 cheaper mind you,) but I have no idea what justifies such an insane price tag for what you get. I think I will be passing on this one.

222hoyasaxa
jul 20, 2022, 11:58 am

Do other LEs state “First Printing”? Only have the LotR LE, which doesn’t state that.

223SF-72
jul 20, 2022, 1:04 pm

>222 hoyasaxa:

I'm pretty sure that they'll publish a standard edition of this one.

224Shadekeep
jul 20, 2022, 1:06 pm

>223 SF-72: Hope so. The SE would be a far more likely purchase for me.

225ubiquitousuk
jul 20, 2022, 1:09 pm

>217 wongie: thank you for these details and images. If I am spending over a few hundred quid then it is going to be on a private press book, but I do enjoy the vicarious pleasure of these posts and you have done an especially nice job.

226coffeewithastraw
Redigerat: jul 20, 2022, 6:06 pm

>217 wongie: wow thank you for posting this. You have allayed my spine fears. I am still on the fence because to the US w tax and shipping plus the US price premium it is Expensive. I really hope they come out with a SE of this. I love the illustrations.

227azure_hours
jul 20, 2022, 6:37 pm

Wow, these illustrations are excellent! Have read these books and loved them, and I must say that these surreal pieces of art absolutely match the ornate, byzantine atmosphere of the prose. This would take my #1 spot for LEs but for BotNS having sentimental value.

228elladan0891
jul 20, 2022, 9:52 pm

>222 hoyasaxa: LEs normally don't - whether from FS or other publishers. As these are limited, there will be no reprints.

229elladan0891
jul 20, 2022, 10:05 pm

>217 wongie: Great review! Also, even though it wasn't my book, that video made me feel more uneasy than any Hollywood horror film I can think of.
Beautiful set, congratulations!
I've never read the trilogy and I'm not a big fantasy fan, so a definite skip for me. Perhaps I'll go for the old standard set one day. But this is definitely an interesting design, and I like the illustrations; from the first glance they remind me of Pinocchio illustrations a little. I like the illustrations in the old set as well.

230strangenews
jul 21, 2022, 1:59 am

Det här meddelandet har tagits bort av dess författare.

231gmacaree
jul 21, 2022, 3:03 am

I got mine yesterday too, and absolutely love it. The art and illustrations are fantastic, and the binding style, while certainly sturdy enough, gives it a mildly surreal feel when handling. Very happy with my purchase.

232DMulvee
jul 21, 2022, 8:36 am

I’m also very pleased with my copy. It feels wonderful in the hand

233dexterpalmer
jul 21, 2022, 4:01 pm

I got mine today (#334 and I ordered within a half hour of the page going live). Looks very good. Seems quite durable despite the open spine, due to the glue that wongie mentions. Beautiful layout and design—at first glance, text flows neatly around illustrations and everything's smoothly readable. One slight imperfection on one of my volumes beyond the expected loose threads—the edge of one page, though not torn, is irregular in a manner that means the black page edges at the top have a short, thin white streak in them when the volume is closed—but that's not enough to merit more than the mild complaint I'm registering here. (By comparison my first copy of the PKD short stories LE had a detached ribbon in one of its volumes, right out of the box, and getting that exchanged was a several-month nightmare.)

It looks like an expensive production, if only because it looks so very different from the other books I own. I have no regret for the purchase even at its US price—I'm happy to have this set, but I already knew I loved these novels (well, I love the first two and am generous toward Titus Alone due to the circumstances of its writing—Peake was affected by cognitive decline in his later years due to what is now believed to be Lewy body dementia, and many hold the opinion that this decline is reflected in the composition of the third Gormenghast book. For more on that, see here: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784261).

I also love Dave McKean's art, and I will likely re-read these books several times over my life. For those who don't have a prior attachment to both Peake and McKean, an SE, if it materializes, will most likely do just fine.

234A.Godhelm
jul 21, 2022, 5:08 pm

>217 wongie: I don't really get the case design but other than that your pictures have sold this set better than Folio did. Thanks for the pictures.

235woodstock8786
jul 21, 2022, 5:19 pm

>223 SF-72: Oh please! I really really hope they will! A standard edition with those cover illustrations and I am totally sold! I really love the covers

236antinous_in_london
Redigerat: jul 21, 2022, 9:49 pm

>215 wongie: They announced a 2pm sale time but i stumbled across the page when i was checking, well before 2pm & the ‘buy’ button was live (i cant remember but may have even been 30 minutes before or longer) & i got a number in the early one-hundreds - so maybe others jumped the gun also hence the higher numbers for people who ordered around 2pm when it was ‘officially’ for sale.

237DMulvee
jul 21, 2022, 11:00 pm

>236 antinous_in_london: My order was placed on 15th June at 11:36:19 according to the email confirmation and I received number 361

238Nightcrawl
jul 21, 2022, 11:12 pm

>236 antinous_in_london: Number allocation appears to be random when Folio does LE pre-orders. I ordered Gormenghast almost as soon as it went on sale, and got a number in the high 400’s. By contrast, I waited at least a week after The Divine Comedy LE went on pre-order, and received #8…

239rsmac
jul 22, 2022, 10:41 am

The art looks really good so even though I'm not the biggest fan of fantasy(ish) titles an eventual SE will be tempting.

A few months ago I found a cheap bluray of Mirrormask (which Dave McKean directed) and pulled it out for a rewatch a couple days ago. There's some beautiful imagery and McKean's distinctive style in spades but the story just doesn't appeal to me. Maybe I'm not a Gaiman fan.

I do like McKean's style, though, so does anyone have any recommendations for McKean illustrated books that are not Gaiman related? Google says there are quite a few but I don't know where to start. Maybe something less fantasy oriented (I know he did that Beehive edition of Crime and Punishment that's outside of a fantasy type genre so maybe something like that).

240podaniel
jul 22, 2022, 10:43 am

I ordered within an hour of the sale starting and have number 659--which is fine by me.

241Cat_of_Ulthar
jul 22, 2022, 1:10 pm

>239 rsmac: You've given me a really good excuse to go and revisit McKean's Cages. Written and drawn by himself, it came out, as so many independent titles did, in randomly timed installments (ten issues in about five and a half years). There was a nice collected volume by Kitchen Sink Press but I have no idea how easy it is to get hold of these days (Wikipedia says there are some later collections).

From what I remember, it was about a jazz musician, music, and cats. I'm not sure it was fantasy in any usually understood sense of the genre but I seem to remember the odd surreal moment.

The art was striking, with a very limited colour palette: lots of greys.

Gormenghast arrived today, as it happens, so this is promising to be a McKean-heavy weekend ;-)

242folio_books
jul 22, 2022, 2:21 pm

>241 Cat_of_Ulthar: Gormenghast arrived today

Glad you received it, hopefully safely in one piece.

243rsmac
jul 22, 2022, 7:16 pm

>241 Cat_of_Ulthar: Thanks for the rec - I'll see if I can hunt down a copy.

244JohnPotten
jul 23, 2022, 2:58 am

>243 rsmac: Cages is great, also maybe look at Black Dog and Raptor, his two most recent works.

245abysswalker
jul 23, 2022, 3:11 pm

>241 Cat_of_Ulthar: for those interested in browsing, there is a copy of Cages in the archive.org digital library. This is both legit (DRM constrained PDF) and free to check out.

https://archive.org/details/cages0000mcke

You do need to create a (free) archive.org user account to checkout titles, and use Adobe Digital Editions (or some other software that can handle the DRM; I think there are a few mobile apps that can do it as well).

246Willoyd
jul 23, 2022, 3:26 pm

>235 woodstock8786:
Don't want to be too negative, but I continue to live in hope for an SE of Madam Bovary. Not a sniff yet. I wouldn't hold your breath.

247Juniper_tree
Redigerat: jul 24, 2022, 5:54 am

>246 Willoyd: I can’t see them doing a SE until the LE has sold out, and the longer that takes the lower the likelihood of one ever being done. Madam Bovary has now been around for a couple of years, so my money would be that there won’t be one, which is a shame as I would have picked it up as well.

248strangenews
jul 24, 2022, 7:40 am

Det här meddelandet har tagits bort av dess författare.

249Juniper_tree
jul 24, 2022, 9:07 am

>248 strangenews: essentially yes, especially if it ends up being around for four or five years. If you struggle to sell 750 @£245 (the original price), then you are more likely to struggle to sell 2500-3000 at ~£100, as I expect it would be a fine edition. Than if you sold 750 @£500 within a month.

250What_What
jul 24, 2022, 9:34 am

>248 strangenews: The illustrations are a sunk cost, so shouldn’t be much of a factor considering how lethargic sales of a relatively affordable LE are.

251strangenews
jul 24, 2022, 9:45 am

Det här meddelandet har tagits bort av dess författare.

252boldface
jul 24, 2022, 9:54 am

>251 strangenews: "but it doesn't seem like it's going to be a lemon that sticks around for ever."

You mean, like Pomona?

253RogerBlake
Redigerat: jul 24, 2022, 10:30 am

>252 boldface: No, that one was an apple (or maybe a pear) not a lemon :-)

254red_guy
Redigerat: jul 24, 2022, 11:03 am

>248 strangenews: >250 What_What: The Gormenghast has to be ready and waiting. All the pre-press work for a slightly different treatment would have been done in parallel with the LE, surely. Maybe they will keep it back a few years and wait for the Gaiman multi-part TV extravaganza which is on hold at the moment?

The question is though, how much do you take away from such a lovely LE and still make it palatable and affordable for the fickle Folio fancier? Standard spines, obviously, and standard slipcases. But Abbey wove won't stand for all those inline illustrations without a lot of show through, so they will have to stick with Abbey pure. Then even though it doesn't look it at a casual glance, the entire LE is printed in full colour, used to incredibly subtle effect; even the chapter headings are drawn with a range of colours, and the seemingly solid blocks of blue / grey / khaki in the smaller pictures are shot through with other tones and details - a red eye, a wisp of mauve etc. Probably those elements were designed to be simplified if needed.

My prediction would be that the eight to ten traditional full page colour illustrations in each book will be colour inserts in Folio's usual manner, with the inline smaller pictures and spreads either in black and white , like American Gods, or maybe in a standard duotone, with headings etc in the appropriate single colour. Even so, it's still going to be expensive, £100-150 per volume, for sure if all the illustrations are used. Is that too much, do you think?

I don't think poor old M. Bovary will get a SE, nor T. Shandy, and certainly not R.Roy ... It's a shame, but the demand isn't there any more for regular editions ( apart from >246 Willoyd: , which goes without saying ) the field being covered so well by other publishers.

255SF-72
jul 24, 2022, 11:55 am

Does anyone else have trouble pulling the final book from the box? At first I thought it was due to the books being wrapped, but it's still the case now. My only explanation is a slightly skewed box because the others can be pulled out easily, but I'd like to make sure it's an individual problem and not normal. As it is, I'm worried that the book will be damaged quickly because it rubs so heavily against the box whenever you get it out or put it in.

256red_guy
jul 24, 2022, 12:39 pm

>255 SF-72: What happens if you swap the order of the books - is it the same?

I've got my box on a shelf standing upright with an inch of space at the right hand side so that when I open the 'door' you can grab a book easily because the others aren't wedged in.

257SF-72
jul 24, 2022, 1:57 pm

>256 red_guy:

The book that's furthest to the left is extremely hard to get out in my set although the box is free-standing upright and the others have already been removed. I have to pull very hard because there's pressure from the top and bottom.

258red_guy
jul 24, 2022, 3:04 pm

>257 SF-72: Hmmm... maybe find a similarly-sized slip case, put it in the box and pack out the gap between the top of the slipcase and the inside of the roof of the Gormenghast box with slivers of card, adding them until it eases the cardboard just a mm or so, then leave it overnight? You can make overtight slipcases fit more easily by gentle stretching , so it could work as you only need to relax the box by a tiny amount.

259What_What
jul 24, 2022, 9:07 pm

>251 strangenews: I thought we were still talking about the Madame Bovary, sorry. That is what I was referring to.

Hopefully there’s a standard edition forthcoming, so others can enjoy the new artwork at a much lower cost.

260mr.philistine
jul 25, 2022, 2:26 am

Here is a 17m 'unboxing' video on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9Osxm8RSsU

261wcarter
jul 25, 2022, 7:39 am

My unboxing usually takes about 17 seconds!

262folio_books
jul 25, 2022, 7:54 am

>261 wcarter:

Yes, but to be fair you've had a lot more practice than most, Warwick ;)

263mr.philistine
jul 25, 2022, 2:03 pm

>261 wcarter: I secretly hope for the day when you start your own YouTube channel and take us on a walk around your library, randomly picking items off your shelf and sharing your views and stories on how you acquired them! :)

264wcarter
jul 25, 2022, 5:41 pm

>263 mr.philistine:
Not YouTube, but illustrated slide-shows of my books can be seen at these sites -
FINE PRESS and LIMITED EDITION books can be seen at:-
‪https://www.flickr.com/photos/warwick_carter/albums/72157664291435999‬
FOLIO SOCIETY BOOKS:-
‪https://www.flickr.com/photos/warwick_carter/albums/72157665261053955‬
FINE FACSIMILE EDITIONS:-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/warwick_carter/albums/72157719676589898
LIMITED EDITIONS CLUB:-
https://www.flickr.com/photos/warwick_carter/albums/72157717099793643
TASCHEN
https://www.flickr.com/photos/warwick_carter/albums/72157715081026838

265Willoyd
jul 25, 2022, 6:20 pm

>247 Juniper_tree:
I'd tend to agree, but then there's been no sign of for instance, Tristram Shandy, , which has sold out - another classic I would have snapped up in an SE version of the LE (and other classics too).

266mr.philistine
jul 26, 2022, 1:31 am

>264 wcarter: Thank you kindly. This should provide several hours of eye candy to fuel the dream machine! Bhutanese pizza sounds delicious. I couldn't help but search online and from your photo, the decor and seating looks like The Seasons Pizzeria in Thimphu reviewed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ynWyZK3Zk&t=38s

267English-bookseller
jul 26, 2022, 6:47 am

>265 Willoyd: Agreed. I too am looking out for a SE Tristram Shandy.

Would help with Devotees' financial planning if they were made aware of such publishing decisions early on.

After all, there are many other good publishers - such as OUP or CUP - who do advertise forthcoming titles.

268paulmoran
jul 26, 2022, 3:13 pm

Gormenghast arrived today. The introduction pointed me to the ten 1973 illustrations by Charles W Stewart on the royal academy website. I really like these, they follow very closely the character sketches by Peake. Charles Stewart also illustrated wonderfully the folio edition of leFanu’s Uncle Silas that you may have on your shelves.

269astropi
jul 29, 2022, 4:32 pm

Still over 1/4 left in stock. Again, seems like a reasonable price if you're in the UK, but rather outrageous price difference here in the USA, which leads me to suspect very few people from North America are purchasing this.

270HamburgerHelper
jul 30, 2022, 7:30 am

>269 astropi: this book isn't even well known in America. there's also a recession.

271astropi
jul 31, 2022, 9:02 pm

>270 HamburgerHelper: Excellent point. You get conflicting reports if you read the news. Some say there's a recession, others not. Ultimately, it comes down that if you're in the middle-income or lower bracket, yup, you feel the recession. If you're in the top 10% and up, nope, no recession for you. So what else is new under the Sun?

All that said, pretty clever of the FS to get Neil Gaiman to sign the book. I'm sure that was a big draw, he has quite the fan base! I think the remaining 200 books will be a slow trickle.

272What_What
aug 1, 2022, 8:14 am

>271 astropi: With 8% inflation and interest rates rising at blistering speeds, whether we’re in a recession or not is purely an academic undertaking.

273cwl
aug 3, 2022, 12:23 pm

>271 astropi: There is absolutely no shortage of material signed by Gaiman; I believe it’s been previously pointed out that it can be more difficult to find something not signed by him. ;)

274astropi
aug 3, 2022, 10:29 pm

>273 cwl: He's absolutely a prolific autographer for certain :)
That said, Gaiman's signature maybe superfluous at the moment, but his fans will continue to support him. Of course, some of his signed works are incredibly desired. In particular, I am thinking of Lyra's Press "Stardust".

275RogerBlake
aug 7, 2022, 4:20 am

Now 3/4 sold - just!
:-)

276Hamwick
okt 2, 2022, 1:43 am

Gormenghast is now down to 125. I am interested to know other peoples thoughts are on this LE now they have had it a while. I have always liked the Trilogy and I really like Dave McKean’s illustrations. The spine still bothers me though, I cannot get beyond thinking the books were damaged and someone wrote in felt tip pen what was originally wrote on the spine, although it does allow the book to open and lay flat nicely

277DMulvee
Redigerat: okt 2, 2022, 2:08 am

I think it is a wonderful production. The illustrations are magnificent and a joy to behold. The spines allow you to fully enjoy the illustrations that a traditional binding wouldn’t allow.
I rate it on par with The Malay Archipelago as the most impressive FS volume I own

278terebinth
okt 2, 2022, 5:56 am

>276 Hamwick:

It does seem more than usually a case where the lack of a chance to inspect the books before purchase is unfortunate. Many buyers have related enthusiastic responses to the set, but I'd guess hardly anyone with such an immediate and enduring response to the open spines as yours - I'm stuck with it too - will have become owners.

279wongie
okt 2, 2022, 7:07 pm

>276 Hamwick:, I just finished Titus Groan yesterday and started Gormenghast this morning. I read them placed on a book pillow like all my Folios and in my experience aside from the usual superficial signs of wear (pages along the text block no longer perfectly aligned, and some minor spine slant which happens to all my read Folios) the binding along the spine itself it still as strong as it was when I first opened it up. There are no signs that it has weakened nor can I see any loose threads as a result constantly opening it every day for the last several weeks.

It was a very enjoyable experience not needing to use snake weights for once. The book does very well in remaining flat most of the time aside from the odd few pages that requires some manual flattening but even those ones don't actually stick out much.

280Hamwick
okt 2, 2022, 7:34 pm

Thank you for the feedback and the picture. It seems most who have bought it are very pleased and comment that the spine increases their enjoyment of the pictures, rather than anything negative. I agree that it would have been nice to have seen it for real, before purchasing, however, I think enough of you have seen it and praised it to waylay my concerns. I need to be more open to change!

281ultrarightist
okt 3, 2022, 2:26 pm

>279 wongie: What is a book pillow?

282wcarter
okt 3, 2022, 3:03 pm

>281 ultrarightist:
A fancy cushion.

283NorthBank
okt 26, 2022, 4:13 am

>277 DMulvee: agree. Costs a fortune. But given the TS Eliot Wasteland fun and games....it's a "bargain".

284NorthBank
okt 26, 2022, 4:18 am

>217 wongie: having supported Folio for years, and owning what I consider their most beautiful edition - the 2009 Moby Dick LE set - this is easily the most beautiful and daring set they have made since. And if you can have nearly every book in the world on an e-reader - to keep the idea of artisan printing alive- they have got to keep free thinking like this.

285wongie
Redigerat: nov 1, 2022, 10:27 am

A quick update that owners should be aware of. Having finally read all three volumes I've found that they seem to expand in girth so that the box no longer comfortably contains them. I had resort to using 20kilos worth of dumbbells to try and flatten them back down with some success (after half a day) though of course I'm not sure everyone would have 20 kilos of dumbbells conveniently lying around and may be forced to be a bit more creative in finding thing/s of similar weight.

Despite this, I found the binding a rather enjoyable experience. I don't think Folio should be detracted from using such bindings in future though they should take into consideration the thickness of such volumes likely won't remain the same after being read and should therefore factor that into whatever is used to house them.

Before squishing


After squishing


286DMulvee
Redigerat: nov 1, 2022, 10:42 am

>285 wongie: I have read all three volumes, but mine didn't expand afterwards, and so still fit in the box as before without issues

ETA: My box is stored at a 90 degree rotation to yours, so the three books are inside on top of each other (effectively weighing each other down), perhaps this is the reason why I didn't notice any issues?

287wongie
nov 1, 2022, 11:09 am

>286 DMulvee: That's interesting. After flattening them I did try inserting the books in reverse, spines in, and it was still a noticeably tighter fit so is only affecting the spine/signature side of the volumes. The only thing I can imagine that that side of the book goes through is from prolonged opening that is perhaps loosening and expanding them.

I don't recall there being issues before I read them when I was only taking them out occasionally to flick through the pages and therefore weren't opened for extended periods so at first thought don't see storage orientation perhaps being a big factor here.

288English-bookseller
nov 1, 2022, 12:20 pm

>287 wongie: You could always rip out some of the more boring pages to get back to the original width...

289folio_books
nov 2, 2022, 12:12 pm

Now down to 98 copies left.

290averagegatsby
jan 23, 2023, 6:45 pm

>289 folio_books: Now down to 64 although someone has listed it on eBay for £680.

291DaveGLeeds
jan 24, 2023, 1:24 pm

As much as I like the look of the illustrations I'm afraid the open binding didn't really appeal. In all honesty, neither did the price, though I can appreciate the work that's gone into it.

292pse1
jan 24, 2023, 9:53 pm

>290 averagegatsby:

Looks as though that’s sold but it’s also available at the very reasonable price of £1299 with FREE postage!

293dyhtstriyk
jan 25, 2023, 8:24 am

>292 pse1: To think that I got the 2000 reprint for $50 on ebay about seven years ago...

294podaniel
mar 21, 2023, 4:14 pm

The LE counter is almost to 20. Usually that is the magic number when the last few copies of an LE are snatched up. If you've been waiting, I'd think about pulling the trigger in the next couple of days.

I have a copy of this production and it reminds me of the glory days of Joe Blundell (plus the open binding makes it a unique LE).

295gmacaree
mar 22, 2023, 5:52 am

If you're even remotely interested in this one, get it!

296PeterFitzGerald
mar 22, 2023, 6:40 am

>294 podaniel: The FSD magic is at work again. Now down to 15.

297podaniel
mar 22, 2023, 10:12 am

>296 PeterFitzGerald:

And now 11. When LEs get below 10, they tend to sell out in a few hours.

298cinnamonspirit
mar 22, 2023, 2:30 pm

Could be even lower now. I’ve ordered when it was on 11 and it’s still stuck on 11 now (expect while order’s processing).

299folio_books
mar 23, 2023, 4:45 pm

Last two, folks.

300pythagoras
mar 23, 2023, 5:22 pm

And now it's out of stock.

301astropi
mar 28, 2023, 1:42 pm

Took 9 months to sell out. It would certainly have sold much quicker if it were not for the insane mark-up prices for anyone in North America. Many of the FS's recent LEs seem to be a miss rather than hit. The very expensive The Turn of the Screw is limited to only 250 copies but I don't know anyone that has purchased it -- it's over 12x the cost of the standard edition! What do you get for $725? A leather cover and two signatures of people you have never ever heard of. Now, I would love to purchase The Waste Land, it looks wonderful - but at $1500 that's simply unreasonably expensive. Roadside Picnic also looks wonderful, but so similar to the standard edition that at over 5x the cost it's an easy pass. Just my opinion, but I feel that the FS has done a rather poor job with their recent LEs. Hoping their next LE is something truly enticing and unique.

302LBShoreBook
Redigerat: mar 28, 2023, 4:04 pm

>301 astropi: None of the LEs that you mentioned tempt me either but a few years ago LEs sold out in hours and then third parties got the arbitrage opportunity for underpriced books by listing on Ebay the next day. If an LE takes nine months to sell out but FS did not have to discount the title is that really bad pricing or more accurate pricing that lets FS capture the upside versus third parties capturing that upside? I don't love their current model per se but I don't know they are doing it poorly if their goal is to make a profit.

303PeterFitzGerald
mar 28, 2023, 4:19 pm

>302 LBShoreBook: I think that’s a very good way of looking at it. Businesses operate over financial years, and so I think an LE that sells out in 9 months, all at full price, would be seen as a huge success. In accounting terms surely that’s an almost instant return on investment. On the other side of things, trying to think like a business, I’d call selling out within hours a bit unfortunate: it’s probably a sign that I significantly underestimated the market and therefore underpriced it; and on top of that I’ve probably annoyed some loyal customers who missed out because of the tiny window of availability. The ideal LE to my eyes is one that is around long enough that any customer who wants it (and can afford it) is able to, but short enough that I don’t have to start discounting it to get rid of it.

304astropi
mar 28, 2023, 7:16 pm

>302 LBShoreBook: That's a good question. The answer depends at least partly on how long the FS is willing to keep their LEs in the storehouse. Considering how they have been selling, I suspect we will see substantial discounts in the next sale. Overall, I'm not sure if selling out after 9 months is really a "success". The longer merchandise just sits in storage, the more time and money it costs. As you noted, a few years ago LEs could sell out in hours. Personally, I was tempted by Gormenghast, but refused to purchase the LE due to the insane mark-up the FS has had with their LEs -- although it looks like after their asinine response to the much higher cost (basically like a bunch of politicians, they had no answer and were just winging it) prices are far closer to parity which is how it should be. At any rate, I find the latest LE overpriced compared to the standard edition which is essentially the same production. I do hope to see something exciting soon.

>303 PeterFitzGerald: The ideal LE to my eyes is one that is around long enough that any customer who wants it (and can afford it) is able to, but short enough that I don’t have to start discounting it to get rid of it.
I don't quite follow you. The point of a LE is to intentionally produce some scarcity so that value appreciates. If any customer can purchase it, then it's not limited. Typically, the quicker something sells the higher it appreciates. As an example, for a while Suntup books were impossible to purchase because they would sell out in minutes - not hours, but minutes. For the most part, the mania has thankfully died down, and many of their books still sell out. However, from Suntup's perspective, I'm sure it's great business if everything you produce sell out nearly instantaneously! And, I'm sure the FS would love for that to happen with their LEs.

305terebinth
mar 29, 2023, 5:17 am

>304 astropi: The longer merchandise just sits in storage, the more time and money it costs. As you noted, a few years ago LEs could sell out in hours... Typically, the quicker something sells the higher it appreciates.

A few more years ago, they typically took years to sell out - even the widely loved Moby Dick, which I only bought near the end of its availability when presented with a £50 discount voucher to use against its price of £175: and now the only copy I'm seeing listed on ABE is £2900.

My take would be that Folio policies since the Mort LE indicate that they're not keen to have further episodes like that, ostensibly because they want to give all prospective buyers who have the ready cash every opportunity to buy the books, but from a business perspective because under any normal conditions selling out in nine months at £750, say, is a far better result than selling out in nine hours at £500. If nine months' storage were costing anywhere near £250, I'd be happy to rent them a corner of my basement at half the price ;)

I've not been seriously drawn to any recent LEs, and after years of buying a steady two a year - that was never a plan, I only noticed when I compared those I have with the year-by-year list presented here - my last was Aurora Australis and the next, if there's to be a next, will be a complete surprise to me.

306PeterFitzGerald
mar 29, 2023, 12:50 pm

>305 terebinth: That's exactly the point I was trying to make (but you've put it far better). It's got to be a balancing exercise. It may be that, as a business, I could sell a set number of products:
(a) in 24 hours if I price them at £500;
(b) in 9 months if I price them at £750; and
(c) in 5 years if I price them at £1,000.

As a starting point I want to sell them for the highest possible price. But set against that is:
- I would probably prefer the profit to be generated in this financial year, or at the very least the next one, rather than over 5 years;
- the longer it takes to sell them the longer I will have to store them; and
- the longer it takes to sell them, the more likely it is that I will have to reduce the price to shift them.

If I follow option (a), I've missed out on £250 per product, which I could have generated within the relatively short period of 9 months, and my only gain is that I haven't had to store them for 9 months. Plus I've potentially annoyed some customers who missed out. If I follow option (c), I'll probably end up discounting them and losing out on much of the extra profit. So option (b) seems to me to be a pretty good place to end up.

>304 astropi: "The point of a LE is to intentionally produce some scarcity so that value appreciates."

But that scarcity is set principally by the number of copies printed, not by how quickly they initially sell. Once it's sold out, a 500-copy LE that takes 10 years to sell is just as scarce as a 500-copy LE that sells out in a day. Yes, you probably generate a bit of hype when an LE sells out quickly and/or massively increases in value on the secondary market, and that will probably assist you a bit in selling future LEs due to FOMO, but that's a very nebulous concept and clearly isn't the dominant factor at play (or else there wouldn't be so many LEs which still haven't sold out despite the success of ones like Mort).

"If any customer can purchase it, then it's not limited."

But it's not "any customer", it's "any customer who can afford it". From a business's perspective, surely (all other things being equal) it's better to limit availability by increasing the price (so you get the full benefit of the demand for it) rather than through having it sell out incredibly quickly?

"Typically, the quicker something sells the higher it appreciates. As an example, for a while Suntup books were impossible to purchase because they would sell out in minutes - not hours, but minutes. For the most part, the mania has thankfully died down, and many of their books still sell out. However, from Suntup's perspective, I'm sure it's great business if everything you produce sell out nearly instantaneously! And, I'm sure the FS would love for that to happen with their LEs."

I have no experience of Suntup, but that simply suggests to me that they are (or at least were) underpricing their books. Many of the FS editions which do sell out very quickly end up selling on the secondary market for far more than their FS list prices. If I were FS I'd be looking at that (as I'm sure they were after, e.g., Mort) and realising they've lost out because they could have raised the price, and that instead scalpers are reaping the benefit rather than them.

307astropi
Redigerat: mar 29, 2023, 2:00 pm

>305 terebinth: >306 PeterFitzGerald: I have never known a SINGLE business that wants to keep their stock sitting in storage. It does not matter if it's books, movies, video games, clothes, etc. business want their merchandise to move. Seems to me you two are discussing what's good for you. From a buyer's perspective sure, it's great if it takes years to sell out of a LE, it allows you to purchase it at a discount. It also does not matter if the LE originally cost $100 and now copies are $1,000,000 -- the FS will not see one cent of that second-hand cost. They post their books at a predetermined price, and their best interest is to sell it as quickly as possible to maximize profit. Business 101 here.

308Shadekeep
mar 29, 2023, 3:12 pm

>307 astropi: Another benefit to things selling out right away is that it means there is probably additional demand that can be met with larger print runs. Something that hangs around and takes a while to sell out means you are probably at the saturation point for demand. Naturally, as you increase stock, you will reach that saturation point, so it's likely that the slow-to-sell-out titles have already hit that magic threshold. But for the seller, it is preferable for a lot of reasons to sell out quicker, and one of those is potentially untapped demand.

309LBShoreBook
mar 29, 2023, 3:36 pm

>307 astropi: I have never known a SINGLE business that wants to keep their stock sitting in storage. It does not matter if it's books, movies, video games, clothes, etc. business want their merchandise to move.

Taken to its logical conclusion this suggests a great business model for FS is to release its SEs however many times a year, sell out in a week and have an empty web site in between releases. I reckon FS is doing just fine without input from all of the armchair biz gurus on a book reading site. 😎

310terebinth
mar 29, 2023, 3:40 pm

>307 astropi:

To be sure, there's little that's intrinsically desirable to a business about having goods sitting in stock: but in the case of a business like the FS I'm wondering where you think that "predetermined price" comes from. It isn't - at least in the case of the "special" signed LEs it very obviously isn't - in a fixed ratio to the costs of design and production. Surely it's normally an estimate of what the market will bear, and a book that sells out within a few months is pretty much an ideal result, poised between the much lower pricing that would have been needed to have it sell out faster and the protracted storage or eventual discounting required if after nine months half the stock is still there.

311astropi
mar 29, 2023, 4:06 pm

>309 LBShoreBook: Again, business 101, economics 101, it's just supply and demand. If the FS were to entirely sell out, that's great for them. That would mean there is more demand than anticipated and they would publish more copies, make more $$$, which is exactly what a business wants.

>310 terebinth: It's a different discussion, but the FS clearly want their patrons to purchase their books, and hence have to find a price point that maximizes profit, which also means pleasing said patrons. The price depends on the material, cost of illustrations, also as you noted "what the market will bear" which to a large extent means pleasing your patrons etc. Also, there are rules protecting both consumers and businesses. Here in the USA a landmark law is the Robinson-Patman Act that offer various protections against price discrimination. The FS is based in the UK, but since they also sell in the USA they have to abide by regulations including the Robinson-Patman Act, and I'm sure there are similar protections in the UK. All these things have to be considered when choosing a price point for their books.
https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/pr...
Anyway, I do agree with you that a book that sells out within say a couple of months is certainly a win. One that takes 9 months I would say is iffy. I believe the FS will put on sale their LEs which have sold "poorly" in the past year or so.

312Shadekeep
mar 29, 2023, 4:12 pm

Something that has been mentioned before in favor of having stock on hands is that it's friendly for attracting new customers. If you go to FS and there are a bunch of nice books to buy, you may become a devoted customer. If you go to Suntup and there are only a few titles on hand, and all the "best" stuff is long gone, you might not bother with them again. So there is that aspect to stock retention. A simplisticly reduced example, as stock management is a much more complicated process, but I do think it plays into the market, as well as public perception.

313astropi
mar 29, 2023, 5:11 pm

>312 Shadekeep: that's an interesting point, the psychology of selling! I honestly do not know if having more in stock is a psychological plus or not when it comes to such a niche market as high-end books. On the one hand, you can imagine someone looking at Suntup books and thinking "Wow, look how many have sold out! I need to keep an eye on this and see what comes next" or as you noted maybe they won't bother. I personally would probably fall along the lines of the former - if I saw that books were sold out all the time, my curiosity would be piqued and I would imagine they must produce great books. But of course, people are all different and Suntup's and the FS's models are not exactly the same.

314Elmbridge
mar 30, 2023, 4:03 am

>311 astropi: Living in England I am not aware of any such provisions in our statutes such as the Robinson-Patman Act.

There used to be a common belief here that the USA ('Land of the Free' etc) compared to the UK was a much less regulated society and had a more laissez-faire economy than our's.

Even a brief visit to the US showed me how officious it can be. A simple example: we English cross the road wherever we want and at our own peril!

315CobbsGhost
mar 30, 2023, 8:45 am

>314 Elmbridge:

Not that I can resist, so I won't. Our government is literally run by liars that call themselves Republicans or Democrats. They're all on the same team stealing money for themselves and their friends. They pass bills, laden with pork and funny business to funnel money off, and surprise, nobody reads them. Our land of the free has a fat and ignorant population that essentially caved to the pleasures we reaped from all those years of freedom. The government points and calls someone a victim, and of course they need money to solve their problems! Funny thing is, they collect more victims and never solve the problems. They never intend to solve anything because that's where they gain power over the population. It works because the educated are brainwashed morons, our uneducated are too stupid to defend themselves and the entirety of the population is self-interested and gluttonous just like the politicians.

But from the outside, the UK doesn't appear to be the picnic you think it is. Your corruption is almost as bad as ours and you likely have a good many on the same team as our bogeymen. The U.S. government isn't really that different than the UK though, just slightly behind in pretentiousness and we have a lot more power and money.

316Chemren
mar 30, 2023, 9:56 am

>314 Elmbridge: Mind the gap.

317CobbsGhost
mar 30, 2023, 2:10 pm

>314 Elmbridge:
>316 Chemren:

Definitely.

>312 Shadekeep:

The best option is to continue printing great books on a broad spectrum. Gormenghast appears to be a solid production, well worth collecting. It will be a standard edition soon enough, and the rare binding will still hold great value.

318Joshbooks1
mar 30, 2023, 5:13 pm

I was able to pick up a copy on the secondary market for a little over $900 including shipping and taxes and I think that's a fair price for the LE - it is still not a bargain, but I am satisfied with it at that price point. The problem I have with Folio these days is that if I were to buy it as a US customer it would have cost around $1300 which is a complete rip-off - there are so many books out there that are far superior at that price point. Several recent books I received off the top of my head which are both cheaper and superior in nearly every way: Extraordinary Editions Exemplary Edition of Ebenezer Le Page, Ascensius Press North of Boston, LEC Ficciones, and Arion Press Neruda Sonnets to name a few. Heck, even the older Folio LE could be obtained for a fraction of that price, and, again, are much better.

Folio's prices have gotten to be insane, especially limited editions, and I'm surprised they sell out these days.

319Willoyd
mar 30, 2023, 8:24 pm

>317 CobbsGhost:
Gormenghast appears to be a solid production, well worth collecting. It will be a standard edition soon enough, and the rare binding will still hold great value.
Of course, it already is, at least in the earlier edition. I have to say I prefer that from what I've seen. But then, being a bit of an old fogey I suspect, there are not many books of which FS have done multiple editions where I've preferred the most recent.

320CobbsGhost
mar 30, 2023, 10:11 pm

>318 Joshbooks1:

Most of those better books are in the public domain and much shorter. Folio really rooks the U.S. but they're likely not making profit off of all the excess. Aside of that, have you seen Suntups Poe price points for a 9" tall book? Almost $6k for 1,300 pages.

Arion Press does Suntup one better with 'the Nose' at $5,500 for 116 pages...literally selling books as drugs.

I'll grant those are likely more expensive materials, but those are much more ridiculous than Folio's price points.

>319 Willoyd:

That's understandable, but this edition has a place at the table.

321Elmbridge
mar 31, 2023, 3:54 am

>315 CobbsGhost: I am not going to disagree with your post.

Most of the Americans I have met and got to know over the decades have I felt been more open, friendly and generous than my fellow 'Brits'. These Americans were military personnel and their families so perhaps they were not fully representative.

322Joshbooks1
mar 31, 2023, 9:04 am

>320 CobbsGhost: Quick google search says Gormenghast was public domain in 2019.

I agree that there are other publishers that also are overly priced, and I understand its a forum for people who like or love Folio, but why do they get a free pass? Why assume they arent making a profit by a 325 upcharge befote shipping and taxes. Look at the recent LEs and all are vastly overpriced for what youre getting.

I like Folios Gormenghast trilogy, I just dont think its worth anywhere near $1300. There are many better publishers and books available for that price point, especially for non-uk citizens.

323astropi
Redigerat: mar 31, 2023, 2:04 pm

>320 CobbsGhost: have you seen Suntups Poe price points for a 9" tall book? Almost $6k for 1,300 pages.

You're talking about the hand-bound lettered edition of which there are only *26 copies worldwide* and they sell out instantaneously. What you really should be comparing the Gormenghast LE to is the Suntup numbered edition which is printed letterpress and there are 310 copies at $575 which is a great price for such a large letterpress publication and basically 1/2 the cost of Gormenghast. Furthermore, Suntup released an "Artist Edition" which is not letterpress, but priced so that someone who can not afford the numbered can still purchase the book for $150. All of these sold out quickly.

324Dr.Fiddy
mar 31, 2023, 2:23 pm

>323 astropi: All editions of Suntup’s Poe are printed offset.

325astropi
mar 31, 2023, 4:07 pm

>324 Dr.Fiddy: You are right! Apologies, their edition of The Tell-Tale Heart is printed letterpress, thanks for the correction :)

326CobbsGhost
mar 31, 2023, 5:14 pm

>323 astropi:
Opinion,

If there's 1 copy of any binding, of a nowhere near rare book, it won't have the value of a cough drop in some future generation. It's beyond obsession into some realm of sickness to buy that sort of book for that sort of price. To even make it, is some brand of some illness.

327Joshbooks1
mar 31, 2023, 5:24 pm

>326 CobbsGhost: That logic could be applied to pretty much everything. Give it time. Your tastes may change one day.

And who cares about monetary worth to future generations, you will be dead! Life is finite, enjoy it while you can.

328CobbsGhost
mar 31, 2023, 8:09 pm

>327 Joshbooks1:
Gormenghast is many times rarer as a finely bound book than Poe. Poe is much more valuable, perhaps even relating to the very madness that one would be suffering to purchase such a book, but by no means a rare text in a fine binding.

Gormenghast isn't an extraordinarily valuable text, but at least it's interesting and rare enough to garner the treatment Folio gave it. I agree that the price is a bit high, but there's plenty of variables here.

Poe is great, but if he didn't sign it, 6,000 is a ridiculous price regardless of the materials.

329SF-72
apr 1, 2023, 3:14 am

One should also keep in mind, when comparing prices, that Poe is one book, Gormenghast three. That is more expensive to produce. Then there's a huge number (150) of original illustrations for this edition by a well-known illustrator, plus the unusual binding style. I'm not saying I was happy about the price, but this Poe / Gormenghast comparison feels a bit like comparing apples and oranges.

330CobbsGhost
apr 1, 2023, 6:19 am

>329 SF-72:

No new artwork for the Suntup either, just letterpress and gold...they also forked over something for collaborators.

I agree that it's an apple to, maybe even pineapple comparison, but the point is still the same. Folio paid for a unique book and artwork of a text that rarely gets this treatment. Suntup used a bunch of money to make a gaudy book for a mad customer. She might be gorgeous, but she's a street walker in Vegas folks.

331What_What
apr 1, 2023, 6:56 am

>330 CobbsGhost: Are you guys even educating yourselves about the books before you criticize them? One person said the Suntup Poe is letterpress; it’s not. Now you’re saying there’s no original artwork, but there is:
“Ten black and white illustrations by Kelley Hensing.”

332SDB2012
apr 1, 2023, 7:42 am

>329 SF-72: I'd love to see a multi-volume Poe collection get a treatment similar to the FS Gormenghast.

333CobbsGhost
Redigerat: apr 1, 2023, 12:53 pm

>331 What_What:

Very sorry, I stand corrected. This inexcusable mistake on my part discredits everything, and I concede that I now believe that the 5,000 dollar premium above Gormenghast is wholly justified. Only because the artist received the BFA & MFA, before the doodles, I can now appreciate the value.

Thank you for your excellent work and Holmsian investigation into this matter. ; )

You could have added the cover and marbled endpapers prior to gracing the topic with moral authority.

334What_What
Redigerat: apr 1, 2023, 1:37 pm

>333 CobbsGhost: Look, I don’t think it’s worth $6k either, so I’m not arguing that. I’m just saying that if you’re going to try to discredit something, at least be accurate, that’s all.

There’s a Suntup thread in the FPF where much of this recent conversation will fit right at home.

335astropi
Redigerat: apr 2, 2023, 3:52 pm

>330 CobbsGhost: Folio paid for a unique book and artwork of a text that rarely gets this treatment. Suntup used a bunch of money to make a gaudy book for a mad customer. She might be gorgeous, but she's a street walker in Vegas folks.

>333 CobbsGhost: This inexcusable mistake on my part discredits everything, and I concede that I now believe that the 5,000 dollar premium above Gormenghast is wholly justified. Only because the artist received the BFA & MFA, before the doodles, I can now appreciate the value. Thank you for your excellent work and Holmsian investigation into this matter. ; ) You could have added the cover and marbled endpapers prior to gracing the topic with moral authority.

Sounds like you're saying your opinion trumps other people's opinion. You make it clear that people that enjoy Suntup just enjoy gaudy books, and somehow you've tied that to prostitutes. Even though I already told you the equivalent Suntup publication is $575, which is less than half the Gormenghast cost, you decide to ignore that and instead concentrate your derogatory comments on the lettered edition of which there are only 26 copies. At the end of the day, you are certainly entitled to your opinion and if you think the Suntup publication is terrible, that again is your opinion. You are welcome to justify your opinion, but insulting people in the passive-aggressive manner you did is not going to make you look intelligent nor is it going to make you any friends.

336CobbsGhost
Redigerat: apr 3, 2023, 8:43 am

>335 astropi:

I'm Sorry. I do forget how sensitive folks are, and sometimes my banter carries too far. I didnt generalize Suntup by the way and I don't have to defend my position on a 6,000 dollar book in a nice dress and I'll liken it to a prostitute because it's not rare and it is a madness to purchase such a book. It really is and has been studied and if folks are purchasing these books and can't see it, they do have a problem.

As for the 575 dollar book, I fail to see how the value is markedly different than the Gormenghast.

Folks treat me exactly the way I have treated them here, but my feelings are not hurt. Your backhanding and moral highground doesn't offend me and hopefully makes your day better. I realize collecting books can be quite an obsession and nobody likes to face their disease. I suffer FAD off and on with many in this group. I do see how reading comments can come across much more aggressive than in conversation, but I've made my case above as I see it.

Again, I made a comment that perhaps a more sensitive chap would take to heart, but I even winked because there was more that could've been included. Really, I am sorry, but there's no reason to be offended. I don't think anyone in this group is stupid at all.

337Willoyd
Redigerat: apr 3, 2023, 3:11 am

Banter is only banter if two people are willingly involved. One-way ‘banter’ is not banter.

338CobbsGhost
Redigerat: apr 3, 2023, 8:43 am

>337 Willoyd:

The premise here is that Gormenghast was outrageously priced. I said not as outrageous as Suntup's Poe. Let's not forget that there's 3 Gormenghast volumes with 142 illustrations with a unique binding. I was told to mind the 575 dollar version of Poe, which added 10 illustrations in one really fat cloth-bound volume. That really wasn't what I was addressing, but for comparison, three readable volumes with a well-recognized artist, 1,150 dollars isn't likely enough of a markup. Let's not forget the constant mispricing that goes on above, that I did not criticize.

I'm just saying prices are off the board everywhere and Folio really isn't out of line. The 6k Poe, is an outrageous debacle all-together, which was the only point I tried to make regarding the Gormenghast price as noted above.

My comment was not that bad in >333 CobbsGhost: and I thought the reply in >334 What_What: was well handled.

339Levin40
apr 3, 2023, 9:00 am

>336 CobbsGhost: ...it is a madness to purchase such a book. It really is and has been studied and if folks are purchasing these books and can't see it, they do have a problem.

Links to studies? That's a strong statement and seems made entirely from your point of view. But isn't everything relative? I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there to whom $6000 a month on a lettered Suntup is considered small pocket change. Is it really 'madness' for them to make such a purchase? Equally, there are many out there - probably the majority in fact - who would consider it completely insane to spend $100 on a FS book which can be bought for a few $ in a different edition. As I said, relative.

340Willoyd
Redigerat: apr 3, 2023, 9:07 am

>338 CobbsGhost:
My comment was not that bad in >333 CobbsGhost: CobbsGhost:
I didn't say it was! Just a bit of a hobby-horse: 'banter' is one of those words all too often used to excuse (often in situations far more serious than this), when it does anything but - in fact it often exacerbates as it implies the person on the receiving end is lacking in the requisite sense of humour. Anyway, I don't want to labour the point (although I might have already!), so enough said, at least on my part.

341cwl
apr 3, 2023, 9:57 am

Give it time, and this entire price-modelling discussion might be rendered moot by algorithm-driven dynamic pricing. Welcome to the best of all possible worlds! :)

342CobbsGhost
Redigerat: apr 3, 2023, 11:45 am

>339 Levin40:

I'm pretty sure you know and understand the existence of such a thing. The crossing from Bibliophile to Bibliomaniac is likely more common than anyone would like to admit.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/791098.A_Gentle_Madness

One of the issues at hand here is what constitutes the disease as materialism becomes a standard practice and essentially the entire meaning of life to such a large swath of people. It becomes much harder for individuals to accept a problem when it is so common as a practice. When a book as common as the works of Poe, can receive such the also-ran treatment Suntup has given it, and sell the book for 6k, you are doing it for perhaps some other reason than simple collecting.

When you purchased a Folio book, you used to be paying approximately double for a book but it is sewn, personally valuable content, generally had illustrations above and beyond the regular hardback and came in a dust protecting slipcase. Now, that price has gone up and so many previous Folio collectors no longer see that value. I myself purchase a lot less than years past. Does this mean that Folio is trying to capitalize on the market? Possibly. But the value of building a library existed with Folio because the product and the contents associated met the goals of an average collector. I don't think this relative cost bordered anything akin to insanity. Have you ever tried selling a standard hardcover? You can hardly give them away at times. So if you lose 75% on a Folio book of 75 dollars, that's still better than 99% on a standard hardcover of 35 dollars. Or a junk hardcover of 15 dollars...

One might then say that a 6,000 dollar book could increase in value as well. But honestly, there' quite a few quality editions of Poe out there. To me the price was egregious.

343CobbsGhost
apr 3, 2023, 11:23 am

>340 Willoyd:

Fair enough. You are correct.

But the statements in >333 CobbsGhost: are littered with ridiculousness. I didn't notice the 10 illustrations because they were reusing Dore... I then noted that because they illustrator had a couple of degrees forget Dore, I now see the value in the whopping 10 new pictures. These were obviously ridiculous comments all for one reason or another.

Instead of saying, hey look, there is 10 new illustrations! I received an, at least be accurate if you speak on the matter. I assumed this opened a window for me to respond with an equally ridiculous claim of, at least include all of the missing components, Sherlock.

344Joshbooks1
Redigerat: apr 3, 2023, 1:42 pm

>342 CobbsGhost: I should probably let sleeping dogs lie but im confused with your notion and judgement of materialism. If I understand correctly, buying Folio Society books and a $1300 limited edition is healthy and not materialistic, but buying other things a little more exorbitant is the bane of mankind?

So it's okay to buy a Volvo SUV, since it holds better value than cheaper alternatives, but one is clearly a materialist if he or she buys a Porsche Cayenne?

345CobbsGhost
Redigerat: apr 3, 2023, 2:06 pm

>344 Joshbooks1:

You should, but the conversation is hard to kill.

Well, technically speaking it's $1,150. It perhaps is materialistic and unnecessary, but building a library seems a reasonable thing to do to increase the richness of your own life and those curious lives around you. Quality books are a reasonable thing to purchase, and if one takes the time to read them and share them with their children, they will last for generations. The Tomb of Tutankhamun was held and discussed with me and my entire family last night for example.

I am also saying a quality version of Gormenghast is harder to find than a quality version of Poe. We're talking about an LE which is $383 per book/volume, of which I made the absurd comparison to the $5,950 for a singular volume as a real example of extreme pricing as maligned in >301 astropi:. The comparison of the $575 Poe is a reasonable one, and one which has been entertained above. That comparison simply puts in context the pricing in this market for the Gormenghast and why I don't think Folio was incredibly out of line with their price. I didn't purchase the Folio book for the reason you mentioned, I didn't think the work was of enough interest to me to justify the price, but I certainly didn't find it egregious either.

Regarding an SUV: Anytime you purchase anything because you simply covet it, it controls you. However, one may be able to justify the purchase if they live in an area that requires them to drive 90. You should always weigh the overall value of anything, and I expect you do. Those with expendable income typically abandon that mentality and do what they please. How many times do wealth and morality go hand in hand. It doesn't take a cynic to realize most people suffer with self-control and as enablement increases... This is why welfare systems fail to lift people from poverty, why most lottery winners go broke, and why extreme generational wealth almost never lasts more than a couple generations.

346Willoyd
Redigerat: apr 4, 2023, 1:22 am

>344 Joshbooks1:
So it's okay to buy a Volvo SUV, since it holds better value than cheaper alternatives, but one is clearly a materialist if he or she buys a Porsche Cayenne?

Don't get us on the subject of SUVs - please!!! (needless to say, IMO they are both in the 'materialist' category, at the very best! And I am trying to be polite!).