Big update to Awards and Honors

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Big update to Awards and Honors

Redigerat: sep 19, 5:21 pm

We've just released a new and improved version of "Awards and Honors." The new system was primarily built by knerd.knitter and conceptDawg, and they did a fantastic job.

As we did with "New Series," "New Awards" takes the concept out of Common Knowledge and puts it into its own, dedicated system. Being designed just for awards, the new system can do all sorts of things the old system could not.

You can see an example here:

The new system includes concepts such as "stages" (e.g., shortlist, longlist, winner) and "categories" (biography, best first-time novel, etc.) and these are both shown on the main page and available on sub-pages, like:

Here's a screenshot:

Here's a nearly complete list of the features:

  • Division of awards into three basic categories: Awards, Distinctions, and Recommended Reading Lists. (The division is explained on the wiki.) Various features take advantage of that distinction.
  • Dedicated fields for Stages, Categories, Notes, and Years with dedicated URLs for each combination of them.
  • Ability to group, ungroup, sort and filter awards in various ways.
  • Columns in catalog view for showing awards for your books, overall or divided between Awards, Distinctions, or Recommended Reading Lists.
  • Quick access to the relevant books in your library on the award pages themselves, copying what we have for Genres, DDC, Series, etc.
  • A personal charts and graphs page, showing you the awards for your library, broken down by top vs. all, and the award types.
  • You can now "follow" awards, if you want to keep up with them.
  • An main award page, showing recently-announced awards and the awards you follow.
  • Charts and graphs at the bottom of each award, showing genres, year counts and gender trends.
  • Dedicated sections for links and images.
  • Various ties throughout the system, such as awards lists on genre pages (e.g., LGBTQ+)
  • A new Zeitgeist page.
  • Awards can adhere to award Organizations, like the Guardian or American Library Association. Organizations can have sub-organizations with their own awards.

The Editing/Helper features are extensive, but include:

  • Ability to add "Announcement" dates so that an award can be marked/shown as recently announced, or even upcoming.
  • A new "Organize" page for awards, including a "Power Edit" feature that lets you work on many items at once—for example, adding categories, stages, etc.
  • You can still add awards on work pages too.
  • Ability to combine awards, adding Stages, Categories, and Years as you combine. (This is critical for combining all the previously separate "winner," "shortlist" and "longlist" versions of awards.)
  • Ability to add Relationships to awards to mark awards as affiliated or as predecessors to one another. (Awards that merely change their name should be combined.)
  • Awards can have multiple names and descriptions in multiple languages, with a designator for the primary of each. Names can include "historical names," such as the way the Booker was known as the Man Booker 2002–2019.
  • Five new awards for members for adding to awards, creating and combining awards, adding award images, adding award organizations and a catch-all helper-award for award work. All are for new-edits only, except for the "Adding Images" award, which includes actions done for both or and new awards.) (See the wiki for the complete list of LibraryThing awards.)
  • A "Helper Hub" for every award to aid in cleanup containing features such as finding potential issues in the data, seeing the history of what’s been done, and leaving comments for other helpers to see.

A Note for Helpers. There's a lot to do to get old awards into shape.

Notably, the limitations of the old system meant that awards like the Booker used to be split into Winners, Longlist and Shortlist. Although LibraryThing staff spent much of last week cleaning up big awards, a huge amount of work needs to be done on combining awards from their winners/longlist/shortlist separate CK awards into the new joined single-award structure with stages, and general cleanup. You will notice, for example, that many awards have categories like "Thrillers and Mysteries," "Thrillers & Mysteries," "Thrillers and mysteries," etc. These inconsistencies are easier to see now, and we've provided easy ways to bring order to chaos. On the Helpers Hub we have provided an Issues tab when our automated system discovers easily identifiable issues with the data (like the similar category names above). As we work on the new data we expect to build more automated issue discovery and possibly automated fixes.

Finally, an important point about combination: Although most books that "win" an award were also shortlisted and longlisted for it—if the award has those stages—the old LibraryThing awards didn't and couldn't handle this. Rather, "Booker Prize Shortist" was a list of book that got shortlisted and DIDN'T go onto win. The new system can do it better, but staff and LT members have to make the changes.(1) (We can't make it automatically for various reasons, not least because some awards have categories that are missing stages seen elsewhere in the category.) The Power Edit feature of the new Awards system usually makes these changes quite easy with a few simple clicks.

Okay, that's it! Let us know what you think. We're here to make this better, and will no doubt be making a lot of changes at your suggestions.

1. You'll note this problem afflicts the "Lost Man Booker Award" above. The "Helper Hub" has a note on this:

Redigerat: sep 19, 5:34 pm

The charts at the bottom of Award pages can be quite interesting, especially the genre chart and gender trends. I've noticed that most major awards have trended towards a more equal representation of author genders over time. For instance the Nebula was 98% male authors in the first year we have data (and 100% the following year!). Now it is 51% female.

Also interesting for Helpers, the awards over time chart can serve to highlight some years that are not represented in the award data (is this something we might be able to automate and put in the Issues tab at some point?).

sep 19, 5:36 pm

You guys have outdone yourselves this time. I'm very impressed.
Damn there's a lot of work to be done.

sep 19, 5:40 pm

I've had a bit of a play combining awards works well. As does editing the Categories to tidy up punctuation, spacing and capitalisation.

I have noticed some issues and desiderata - but these are not major blocking issues. I can work around all of them (I am certainly not expecting anyone to jump on these and implement them immediately)

I have been working on the British Fantasy Award (after I combined in the Nominees)

1) When adding a work to the award - the category dropdown doesn't populate fully

2) Selecting an item in the category menu doesn't always fill in the text box (some categories are better than others). I also get this in the Combine Awards page for the Add New Stage

3) Typing a N for Category - causes the menu to not have any entries (everything filtered out?). Only when adding the o (to make it No) does the menu filter to those containing No

4) Can categories be ordered? So for the British Fantasy Award the Robert Holdstock and August Derleth Awards appear first. At the moment categories just seem to be alphabetically ordered (presumably using English collation). A simple numeric order would suffice.

5) Where there is more than one entry (maybe multiple categories, maybe multiple categories and works) per year (again British Fantasy Award but also plenty of others) could there be a thicker bottom border between years?

6) Stages Can Be Merged. Organizing British Fantasy Awards we see some lines marked as "Stages Can Be Merged" as they exist as Winner and Nominee (I have left some in for you). If I delete the entry for the Nominee the label "Stages Can Be Merged" disappears from the entry with the Winner Stage but the icon for doing the merge is still visible and still brings up the dialog.

7) Save Power Edit? Is this the right verb? Applying the Power Edit change in the catalogue has "Change selected books" as the button label.

8) Power Edit. If editing Category the drop down is just populated with appropriate categories for the Award. However if editing Stage it is populated with more than just the appropriate Stages for the Award.

9) When a category (and or year) are chosen For example and one chooses Organize is it possible to just organize those works - rather than the entire award? For some awards there are thousands of entries. If you only want to change one year, it seems a bit wasteful to have such a big form. By reducing it to the selected category/year it would be more usable for those on phones AND it may well be kinder on the server.

sep 19, 5:40 pm

I'm liking it so far!

sep 19, 5:48 pm

Oh and another I had forgotten.

10) Applies To (Work / Series / Author) - although a couple of these are "coming soon" they are radio buttons. Some awards have categories for works, series and for things like Best Editor, Short Form (which is awarded to a person). Will that be possible in the fullness of time?

Redigerat: sep 19, 5:53 pm

Full lists of which awards fall under which tripartite category would be nice for a first wish. No way to tell what category something's in without clicking. Right now that's fine. Once everyone's had their initial pass, that'll be murder.

Also, I notice when changing the category, the fact that the category changed doesn't seem to make it into the logs, including under the details.

Redigerat: sep 19, 8:17 pm

This has been an interesting learning experience.

1) Is it possible to do more than one category on a book or would that require separate lines? For instance, New York Times Bestsellers, can be Paperback and Fiction or Hardback and Advice/How to.

2) When an award is a 1st place, 2nd place, and Honorable Mention, are those considered stages or notes? I tried working the various Dragonfly awards and don't know if I got them right.

3) If a work can have more than one stage checked, does it need to have multiple lines? Looking specifically at the Locus Awards here:

sep 19, 6:44 pm

Impressive! Thanks for the hard work!

A quibble: could the "stages" be made collapsible? Lots of scrolling to get down to the Longlist on the Booker Prize.

sep 19, 6:54 pm

Is the drop down choice here supposed to stick upon refresh? If not, pretty please?

sep 19, 7:08 pm

>10 lesmel:

Perhaps so. We're redoing that, though.

Redigerat: sep 20, 4:37 am

Nice going so far!

The user edit history is currently bugged, eg.:
(let me know if you want that posting separately in the bug area)

Edit: fixed in >18 timspalding:

sep 19, 9:09 pm

>1 timspalding: Could you make the individual awards on the Book Awards for (User) page collapsible and have them start collapsed? I'd like to see all the awards that I have books for but it's just impractical
Redigerat: sep 19, 9:28 pm

>1 timspalding: "Although most books that "win" an award were also shortlisted and longlisted for it—if the award has those stages—the old LibraryThing awards didn't and couldn't handle this. Rather, "Booker Prize Shortist" was a list of book that got shortlisted and DIDN'T go onto win. The new system can do it better, but staff and LT members have to make the changes."

So, now we're supposed to mark each Stage it reached instead of just marking the highest?

Redigerat: sep 19, 9:36 pm

I'm rather confused.

When I go to my stats, and click on "Book awards", and then "awards" I get a lot of things that appear to be suggested reading lists rather than actual awards.

sep 19, 9:39 pm

>15 lilithcat: Yup. Happy editing. 😂

sep 19, 9:48 pm

>16 lesmel:

I see no way to remove those from that page.

sep 19, 9:50 pm

>12 Nevov:

Thanks. Fixed.

sep 19, 9:53 pm

>17 lilithcat: You have to go to that "award" and edit it to change it to a Reading list apparently. Based on the couple of minutes I've looked at the new system at least.

sep 19, 10:08 pm

>19 Taliesien:

Ah, thanks.

sep 19, 10:15 pm

Looks great, thanks :)

One suggestion so far - put those short descriptions of each category next to them on the edit page so that everyone can see them easily. There will be a lot less work in the future recategorizing.

sep 19, 11:08 pm

When combining awards on the second page where you add/select a stage, the drop down array isn't selectable. e.g. I want to add "Shortlist" so I start typing s, the drop down appears with Shortlist displayed, I select it with my mouse but nothing populates the entry field. I end up having to type out the entire word and there is a noticeable lag between typing and the text displaying in the field.

sep 19, 11:30 pm

Yep, I've been seeing the same thing, took me a while to realise I was adding blank fields, and that I needed to force it by typing the whole thing each time.

sep 19, 11:46 pm

Order label sorting with non-numeric prefix is borked -- 1, 10, 100, 101 versus 1, 2, 3.
Work Category Order Label Year
In Search of Lost Time by Marcel Proust
#1 1913
Madame Bovary by Gustave Flaubert
#10 1857
The Decameron by Giovanni Boccaccio
#100 1469
Tess of the D'Urbervilles by Thomas Hardy
#101 1891
Waiting for Godot: A Tragicomedy in Two Acts by Samuel Beckett
#102 1953
Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe
#103 1719
The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov
#108 1966
The Divine Comedy by Dante Alighieri
#11 1308
Their Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston

sep 19, 11:46 pm

Question to staff, personal & global award edit history log only showing most recent 20~25 minutes of data? Intentional behavior?

sep 20, 3:57 am

Picking everyone's brains.

I have just done a little bit of tidying up of the Sturgeon Award -

In reality up until relatively recently the jury also awarded Second (and Third) places. Should these be comments or be stages? Same for Special Citation.

Also over time terminology has changed. In the early years we had "Honorable Mention" and then "Shortlist" and then "Finalist". Should we be consistent and just use "Finalist" or should we use the appropriate stage name for that year?

sep 20, 5:36 am

>22 Taliesien: I've found that the system was overwhelmed. If I wanted 15 to 30 seconds, the drop downs became selectable.

sep 20, 7:35 am

>4 andyl:
1) the category field is an autocomplete, not a dropdown, so if you start typing something, it will filter, but it has a maximum number of items that will appear when nothing is typed
2) this is a known issue that we are working on
3) we will look into this
4) this was discussed, but we decided against it. it may be revisited at some point
5) the tables are all sortable, so this wouldn't really make a lot of sense or be simple to do
6) I will look into that; but the expected use is to click the button to merge them instead of deleting one
7) *shrug*
8) that is intentional; both fields are free text so anything can be added; stages has a default set that are the most commonly used ones to facilitate common spelling
9) we will discuss this possibility

>6 andyl:
10) that has not been discussed

>7 davidgn: do you mean you changed the category on a single work? it should show up as having edited the work with specifics in the see more or see details link (I forget the wording)

>8 gilroy:
1) yes, you need to use separate lines for each category; the reason being, they may be nominated for one category but win for another, so the stages need to be linked to the individual category
2) notes should not be used except for extra sorts of data, such as the name of a short story if a collection is used as the work or a specific actor's name in the case of Best Actress for the Oscars
3) When multiple stages are attached to a single work, in the Stages view it will appear in both sections but in the List view it will appear as a single row

>9 Petroglyph: this was discussed previously; the answer at the time was that since you can filter by them, they didn't need to be collapsible, but it may be revisited

>13 jjwilson61: do you mean the stats page?

>14 yes, that is the intention

>21 SandraArdnas: the "explanation of these types" link should bring up the descriptions in a slide-out view on the right

>22 Taliesien: there are known issues with the autocomplete that we will look into further

>24 davidgn: I would recommend not using the pound sign

>25 Taliesien: the edit history should show the last x edits, so if lots of things are being edited, it may only go back 20-25 minutes

Redigerat: sep 20, 7:59 am

>28 knerd.knitter: re >7 davidgn: Yes. But the specifics that show up do not include any reference to the category, old or new.

>28 knerd.knitter: re >24 davidgn: Yeah, 20 lashes with a wet noodle if I ever find out who did. :-p
Hoping that there are few enough instances that this can be fixed manually

sep 20, 8:01 am

>29 davidgn: re: >7 davidgn: can you point me to the award and the time of the edit history item?
>29 davidgn: re: >24 davidgn: it was probably the imported data

sep 20, 8:05 am

When I have both the Series column and any Awards and Honors column set on a Display Style for Your Books, the series column is getting shrunk and no text is visible in the column. As soon as I remove Awards and Honors from the Display Style, Series reverts to normal size and the appropriate text returns.

sep 20, 8:10 am

>30 knerd.knitter: Just edited to change Award to Recommended Reading and add Pajiba as the Org.

Details in helper hub has the following for the transaction:

Has stages
Has categories
Has numbers
Has notes

Redigerat: sep 20, 8:18 am

>31 jeffrushton: we will look into that

>32 davidgn: that looks like the right information; I thought you said you edited a work's record, not the settings for the award I see the problem there; I will add that field

Redigerat: sep 20, 8:35 am

>28 knerd.knitter: re >24 davidgn: OK, this is going to come up quite a lot in various guises (here with a word preceding a year order). I'm pretty sure it would be a good idea to put in some code handling this because "go through 13,000 awards and find all the places that need leading 0's manually added" is not going to happen.

sep 20, 8:33 am

Auto-complete doesn't seem to work when I'm editing the nominations for Augustpriset. The suggestions pop up but I can't click on them, and when I try to just click the enter key it doesn't add the whole word/phrase, but just the letters I've entered.

And then a question - since I'm working on a Swedish award given to Swedish books, I'm using the Swedish words for the different categories. This could of course make it tricky for people who don't speak Swedish to understand which category a work belongs to, but it doesn't feel right to use English terms for cases like this. But maybe there should be translations available? A possibility to chose language?

sep 20, 9:32 am

Is the Newbery award not a top honor and award? When I go to the Newbery page, the only options are awards distinctions and reading lists, but when I want to see what is in my library, I have an extra category of top honors and awards. I guess I don't understand what that one means.

sep 20, 9:35 am

Maybe top awards just means the ones I have the most of?

sep 20, 9:35 am

>4 andyl: Save Power Edit? Is this the right verb? Applying the Power Edit change in the catalogue has "Change selected books" as the button label.

We'll change it.

>4 andyl: Power Edit. If editing Category the drop down is just populated with appropriate categories for the Award. However if editing Stage it is populated with more than just the appropriate Stages for the Award.

I think the drop-down should show only the stages currently used on the award. While showing common ones is useful, it's also somewhat confusing.

And then a question - since I'm working on a Swedish award given to Swedish books, I'm using the Swedish words for the different categories. This could of course make it tricky for people who don't speak Swedish to understand which category a work belongs to, but it doesn't feel right to use English terms for cases like this. But maybe there should be translations available? A possibility to chose language?

Some stages are translatable. Can you point to the award and tell me what the stages mean?

>4 andyl: 9) When a category (and or year) are chosen For example and one chooses Organize is it possible to just organize those works - rather than the entire award?

I think this is a good idea. We'll look into it.

sep 20, 9:41 am

Any chance that the awards that are not in English could have an English name that appears on the English site? I'd like to be able to read the title of the Russian and other language awards, but don't feel that the alternate language titles should be deleted.

sep 20, 9:44 am

when there is a category (like for academy awards) could that column be sortable?

sep 20, 9:57 am

>37 al.vick: No, it correlates to the Top Awards sitewide as displayed in the zeitgeist from what I found looking at mine last night trying to decipher my list.

sep 20, 10:11 am

>39 al.vick: Any chance that the awards that are not in English could have an English name that appears on the English site? I'd like to be able to read the title of the Russian and other language awards, but don't feel that the alternate language titles should be deleted.

If you add an English title to an award with a Russian primary name, it should be using the English title when you view on the English site. If this is not the case, please point me to an award where this isn't happening.

>40 al.vick: when there is a category (like for academy awards) could that column be sortable?

It is sortable
sep 20, 10:12 am

>28 knerd.knitter: All right, thanks!

sep 20, 10:14 am

>40 al.vick: >42 knerd.knitter: Are you looking at it in Stage or List?
It's sortable in List view but not in Stage view.

sep 20, 10:24 am

The UI/UX could use some clarity as the existing explanations are confusing at best.


Instead of "13 Awards and Honors" elaborate on the criteria (based on LT Top Award list)

another example of confusing language,

I've selected for Awards only yet the summary still says "54 Awards and Honors" when it should only say "Awards" in this scenario. "Honors" seems to be the umbrella term for "Distinctions" and "Reading Lists" so should be restricted to those selections. Ditto for the "Distinctions" and "Reading Lists" selections, which currently are summarized as "Awards and Honors" when they are just "Honors"

Summary should be an explanation of the item selected and/or criteria for the selection. Perhaps a tooltip or link to appropriate wiki definition in the summary.

Redigerat: sep 20, 10:37 am

>45 Taliesien: That part of the page is getting an update; also "Awards and Honors" is the feature name that represents all three award types; it's confusing, but it's what we came up with; so "54 Awards and Honors" means 54 of the things in the "Awards and Honors" feature, regardless of their award type

Redigerat: sep 20, 10:40 am

Let's try to separate out feature requests from bugs, so anything that is definitely a bug, please post here.

sep 20, 10:42 am

Also, I know it's too late to change terminology and I didn't follow any of that discussion but I have to say, "Recommended Reading Lists" strikes a wrong chord every time I see it. Comes across as too...scholarly to me. Personally I would have gone with "Acclaimed Reading Lists" which seems a better fit for the scope of content it encompasses. I had to change about 20 "Awards" to "Recommended Reading Lists" last night and I noticed I was actually grimacing each time I had to select it.

Redigerat: sep 20, 10:47 am

>46 knerd.knitter: Uh, yeah and it's terrible UX. I wasted 10 minutes last night adding them all up to figure out what comprised what and writing up my own notes with definitions. Acknowledging that "it's confusing, but it's what we came up with" is basically saying "yeah you're right but what you gonna do?" :D

sep 20, 10:56 am

>49 Taliesien: What I meant is confusing is that we chose "Awards and Honors" as the feature name and "Awards" as one of the award types. It's confusing that the same word is used in both places.

sep 20, 11:13 am

>38 timspalding: I’m not talking about stages, I’m talking about categories.
The award I’m working on is Augustpriset (the August Award) - can’t link right now.
“Barn- och ungdomsbok” is “Children’s (and youth) book”, “Skönlitteratur” is “Fiction” and “Fackbok” is “Non-fiction”.
And just a note, I’m working on the English language LT site, not the Swedish one.

sep 20, 11:16 am

>45 Taliesien: The UI/UX could use some clarity as the existing explanations are confusing at best.

We are redoing that UI soon. Let us know what you think when we do that.

>48 Taliesien: Acclaimed Reading Lists

Honestly, that's pretty good. Maybe we should go with that?

Redigerat: sep 20, 11:44 am

I'm looking at combining the Whitcoulls' Lists, which are currently divided by year. What is the recommended way of handing that? Should I add a category with "year"? Note with "year"? Nothing seems to apply directly.
NM, found it in the combine features. But it's odd that I couldn't find a way to power edit in a date field outside of the combine.

sep 20, 11:43 am

>53 davidgn: Can't you use Date?

Redigerat: sep 20, 11:54 am

>54 gilroy: There was no power edit for date, as there was no date field. I didn't see a way to add a date field except by ticking the option to use publication dates. Using combination was a fine workaround in this case. But either I missed something, or that's an infelicity.

Redigerat: sep 20, 11:55 am

"This award/honor has been archived by (username) into Mark Twain Readers Award.
See the archived version."
Can we use "combined by (username)"? Clearer.

sep 20, 11:56 am

I know we haven't got an editions / expressions layer in LT - but I have noticed in doing cleanup work that some people have already entered awards for stuff like Cover Art (see - for the Ravenhearts). I am loath to destroy the data for the Ravenhearts so have just combined it in regardless of the fact that the cover art probably only applies to a particular UK edition and not all editions of the book. Someone has put time and effort into entering these. I will add a note to the award's description warning people of this.

sep 20, 12:01 pm

sep 20, 12:03 pm

>40 al.vick: al.vick: when there is a category (like for academy awards) could that column be sortable?

It is sortable

How do I do it then? Sorry if this is obvious.

sep 20, 12:11 pm

>59 al.vick:

Only in list view, not in stages view.

sep 20, 12:19 pm

>57 andyl: If you enable notes in settings, you'll be able to add a note about who or what won to the works themselves.

sep 20, 12:26 pm

>52 timspalding:. "Acclaimed Reading Lists" sounds good to me.

sep 20, 12:33 pm

>61 amanda4242:

Yeah I know but it would require a fair bit of research and work. I know for example in 2018 Richard Anderson won the Ravenheart for the cover to Kings of the Wyld. Looking at that book it is the default image for that work (at the moment) and has been used for most other editions. Some other winners/shortlists may have a lot more editions with varying cover art. And it still leaves the problem of conveying what actual artwork won. I could mention an ISBN - but books can be reissued with new cover art without a new ISBN.

sep 20, 12:46 pm

>55 davidgn: There was no power edit for date, as there was no date field. I didn't see a way to add a date field except by ticking the option to use publication dates. Using combination was a fine workaround in this case. But either I missed something, or that's an infelicity.

You have to check the box on the settings that says "Awarded more than once"; you do not have to check the publication date box to get the year field for the works

sep 20, 1:09 pm

>60 andyl: Ahh...didn't even notice that button! Thanks!

sep 20, 1:36 pm

>52 timspalding: ">48 Taliesien: Taliesien: Acclaimed Reading Lists

Honestly, that's pretty good. Maybe we should go with that?"


sep 20, 1:42 pm

I confess “Acclaimed Reading List” sounds weird to me.

Redigerat: sep 20, 1:54 pm

The "Notable Lists" from the lightbox in Award > Edit > Settings seems reasonable since old lists are staying with awards.

ETA: This is the wording in the light box as of a few seconds ago:

Awards and Honors is a flexible category.

Some members have wanted much of it moved elsewhere—to Lists, for example. LibraryThing has chosen not to do that. But the goal of the Award and Honors Types is to separate out the "true" awards from some other distinctions that authors and publishers care about.

Criteria: Awards must be awarded repeatedly at a set interval. They must be chosen by some sort of group or process, not an individual.
Examples: The Booker Prize, Academy Awards, Wolfson History Prize, The Economist Best Books, The Boston Globe Best Books, A Horn Book Fanfare Best Book.
Notable Lists
Criteria: These are one-off or lists of books (or other media), appearing in a book, a magazine, or even a blog. This also includes a list that gets "rebooted" years later. Members may not elevate their opinions into Notable Lists.
Examples: Pitchfork's Top 100 Albums of the 1980s, Guardian 1,000 ("1000 novels everyone must read"), 1001 Children's Books You Must Read Before You Grow Up
Criteria: Everything else, including celebrity and book-club "picks," bestseller lists, and "starred" reviews.
Examples: Oprah's Book Club, Book of the Month Club Pick, New York Times Bestsellers, Kirkus Starred Reviews.

sep 20, 1:56 pm

>68 lesmel: +1 for Notable Lists.

sep 20, 1:58 pm

We mulled it over. Thanks to >66 Taliesien: for "Acclaimed." We decided it was right in rejecting "Recommended" but could be improved upon. There is, in any case, no perfect answer.

sep 20, 2:09 pm

>68 lesmel: & >69 amanda4242: I would argue Notable not a good fit based on definition alone. "Worthy of attention or notice; remarkable." is subjective, as many (most) of these current "Recommended Reading Lists" are certainly not notable (worthy) to me. I cannot argue that they are not "Acclaimed" however, "publicly praised; celebrated." The former is subjective the latter objective. I'm an Objective design girl through and through.

sep 20, 2:14 pm

>71 Taliesien: A list could be notable for how bad it is.

sep 20, 2:18 pm

How about published lists, like published reviews?

sep 20, 2:20 pm

>71 Taliesien: I would argue some find the "acclaim" of being on a list to be a death knell to reading the book. As Tim said, there's no perfect answer. All the choices are subjective. Personally, I wouldn't have lists in this section; but LT isn't my company and this isn't a democracy. Tim's vote is the winning vote. Period.

sep 20, 2:22 pm

Would something like this be considered a distinction or an award? (I have another opinion but trying to not delete unless told to.)

sep 20, 2:27 pm

>75 gilroy: I wouldn't include it as either, but if you made me choose, it would be a distinction.

Redigerat: sep 22, 6:28 pm

Reposted in correct thread:
More than one Organization?
Joint sponsorship.
"The Arkansas Department of Education (ADE), the Arkansas State Library, and the Arkansas Literacy Association are pleased to announce the annual selection process for the Charlie May Simon Book Award."
There are lots. Many, many, many.

sep 20, 2:33 pm

Another question we'd better get ironed out now: for multi-stage awards, are we planning on recursively including later stage titles in the previous stages in which they must necessarily have appeared, or does this no longer make sense?

sep 20, 2:35 pm

>77 davidgn: I had a similar one:

But this one had a rotating secondary sponsor and a pretty stable prime sponsor, so I put the stable sponsor into the organization. Now I wonder if I did that wrong.

sep 20, 2:36 pm

We chose "Notable Lists." I think it's better than Recommended anyway.

sep 20, 2:45 pm

We have just released a patch for a number of bugs and requests mentioned above.

Redigerat: sep 20, 2:48 pm

Adding year as 2022-2023 (per ) gives error:
"Format should be year only, or year and BC or BCE"
Do we want to be able to include year-ranges (viz. academic years and similar)? Or, is this a bug?

sep 20, 2:51 pm

>80 timspalding:

"Notable", "acclaimed" and "recommended" all sounded off to me, a bad fit for the kind of thing that the feature does, but "notable" is the least worst. (I'd have gone >73 amanda4242: on this: "published lists".)

Redigerat: sep 20, 2:55 pm

Can we just do a big edit and go through and set everything with "nominee" "shortlist" "longlist" etc in the title as having stages, as the first step to combining them? Because that feels like low-hanging fruit, and I'd rather not spend a day doing it if it could be automated. I'm not sure it would also make sense to set the stage based on the one mentioned in the award title because the entered data sometimes get tricky (people entered the winners on the list for the nominees, etc.), but I think that would be a pretty good time-saver for all concerned.

sep 20, 3:04 pm

>84 davidgn:

Agreed. Lucy, can we do this automatically?

sep 20, 3:13 pm

How do we want to handle combining request for Awards? For example:

Yes, I could combine them; but I see there's been some significant work done on both lists and don't want to bork anyone's work.

So, submit request for combination to the combiners group or what?

sep 20, 3:14 pm

>86 gilroy: I'd peg it as a distinction.

sep 20, 3:15 pm

>86 gilroy: I don't want to make a pattern of it, but I'd kill that one.

sep 20, 3:16 pm

>75 gilroy: I'd delete that.

sep 20, 3:18 pm

>87 lesmel: Probably a good general practice once the initial flurry is over.
But I think one of those is nominees and the other winners, so not an issue to combine.

sep 20, 3:24 pm

>82 davidgn: Adding year as 2022-2023 (per ) gives error

This is expected behavior.

sep 20, 3:24 pm

>48 Taliesien:

"Acclaimed Reading Lists"

Nah. The reading list for an incoming freshman class is not "acclaimed". It's just "recommended">

sep 20, 3:25 pm

>52 timspalding:

Acclaimed Reading Lists

Honestly, that's pretty good. Maybe we should go with that?

Please don't. As I said above, suggested books for an incoming freshman class are not "acclaimed", merely recommended. Same with "reader polls", etc.

sep 20, 3:27 pm

>80 timspalding:

Oh, come on. A list is not "Notable" because a bunch of random people on the internet voted for it. Nor because some professor decided his class should read a set list (some of which he wrote).

sep 20, 3:35 pm

>28 knerd.knitter: The one you linked to in the first post as your personal charts and graphs page

sep 20, 3:38 pm

>92 knerd.knitter: Should it be? And what, just go with the latter year?

sep 20, 3:40 pm

>97 davidgn: It was designed that way. And I don't know the right answer for the year when there's a range.

sep 20, 4:29 pm

Going with the latest year in a range makes sense, if only to avoid the jarring effect of (say) having a book show up as having been honored in 2022 when it was published in 2023.

sep 20, 7:19 pm

Seeing a lot of things classed as lists which should be under Distinctions, given they are not one-offs.

sep 20, 7:27 pm

>100 davidgn: No, the second one clearly calls itself a list. That makes it a list.

Redigerat: sep 20, 7:30 pm

>101 gilroy: So you're reading "These are one-off or lists of books" as correct, and I'm reading it as a typo for "These are one-off lists of books". Tim, could you please clarify? Lots of things are lists of books.

sep 20, 7:48 pm

Fair enough to put Readercon as an org for the Shirley Jackson Award?

sep 20, 8:31 pm

>102 davidgn:

No, I mean that they are "one offs" or "lists of books." But it amounts to the same thing. A "one-off" is something that's done only once. We're saying that actual Awards must be repeated on a regular schedule. (Obviously it someone starts a new award, it won't have been repeated, but the intention of repeating it is clear.) As for "lists" I might say "merely lists" or something like that. Every award from the Booker on down is a "list." A tag page is a "list." The Nobel Prize is a list. But I think we can distinguish between the Booker and lists of great New-England books published once, in 1992, in Maine Outdoors magazine…

sep 20, 8:47 pm

>104 timspalding: The trouble isn't distinguishing between awards and lists so much as distinguishing between distinctions and lists.

sep 20, 10:09 pm

>104 timspalding: But if some blog posts the 100 best fantasy books of yyyy every year in January that's an award because it's not a one-off?

sep 20, 10:29 pm

>106 jjwilson61: based on the definitions from Tim, blog posts of yearly lists are notable lists. See>68 lesmel: for the definitions.

The right here (>105 davidgn: & >106 jjwilson61:) is why I suggested two categories.

Why are bestseller lists distinctions & not notable lists or awards?
NYT Bestsellers. List of books published in a newspaper. Could be called an award. People voted (with their money) & the books beat out dozens of other books to be on that list.

sep 20, 10:30 pm

>100 davidgn: I changed one of your examples from Award to Recommended Reading List last night right after the feature launched because the ALA Best Books (now Fiction) for Young Adults is a recommended reading list, its own definition is this:

"Best Fiction for Young Adults

YALSA’s Best Fiction for Young Adults Blogging Team presents fiction titles published for young adults in the past 14 months that are recommended reading for ages 12 to 18. The purpose of the annual list it to provide librarians and library workers with a resource to use for collection development and reader’s advisory purposes."

I see you've changed it to Distinction but it really is just a suggested reading list. *sigh* this is why I'm throwing in the towel with any "common" or "shared" data because it's a waste of my time to bother when it can be/is undone on whims. Just more edit wars on a new playground, good grief. The 90 minutes I spent last night cleaning up the "awards" that appeared in my catalog would have been better spent testing to see if calibre-web supports hierarchical custom columns so I can add award tracking to my calibre db.

sep 21, 1:23 am

>108 Taliesien: Well, don't mean to discourage you. I was working with a bright-lien definition that a list had to be a one-off. what is the difference between a list and a distinction under this system is now less than clear.

sep 21, 5:27 am

I would just like to point out an issue that is connected to my earlier question about what would be done to the awards that are given to authors not for specific works.
I've come across at least two awards that started out being given to authors in general and then the rules changed and they started being given out to specific works instead. What do we do with those awards? Only add the titles that were specifically awarded? That doesn't tell the whole story.
I feel like the awards for works and the awards for authors should be merged because there is plenty of overlap.

sep 21, 7:48 am

>110 PawsforThought:

For now, end the award when it stops being for a specific work, and leave a note in the description. Author-based awards are coming.

sep 21, 7:54 am

>107 lesmel: >106 jjwilson61: jjwilson61: based on the definitions from Tim, blog posts of yearly lists are notable lists. See>68 lesmel: lesmel: for the definitions.

Yearly lists from some guy's blog are "notable lists." Yearly lists from the Economist, or whatever, are awards. They are awards because "They must be chosen by some sort of group or process, not an individual" and happen every year.

Why are bestseller lists distinctions & not notable lists or awards?

NYT Bestsellers. List of books published in a newspaper.

As I've said before, don't get hung up on "lists." Everything is a list. The Nobel and Booker Prizes are "lists." Tag pages are "lists."

Lists here means lists intentionally created as a list. While NYT bestsellers or Oprah books can be displayed as a list, nobody sat down and said "What should #5 be?"

Also, they are LITERALLY within the examples of lists I made!

People voted (with their money) & the books beat out dozens of other books to be on that list.

We're not counting "voted with their money" as a prize-selection process.

sep 21, 8:37 am

>111 timspalding: I think I'll hold off on doing anything to those awards for now. There's plenty to be done anyway.

Redigerat: sep 21, 10:05 am

>111 timspalding:

But the point is that some awards mix up works and series (and very rarely people) in a single category for a single year. Some awards have categories for people and categories for works and categories for series.

For example The James Tiptree Jr Memorial Award is mainly works - novels and short stories and non-fiction all mixed together. However in 2019 (the last year before it renamed itself) it had a Special Honor to Adrian Demopulos. In 2016 it included Steven Universe (an animated TV series in its Honor List). In 2010 it included Marq'ssan Cycle in the Honor List. In 2009 Roumania and the Shadowbridge series (although the latter is really a duology). In 2008 the first 6 years of Y: The Last Man and so on.

Now there is probably nothing much we can do about Steven Universe - although if it has had some kind of release it might be catalogued here.

People have entered the entirety of the series in some cases. In one case, I just entered the first book of the series and added a note that the entire series was on the Honor List. Neither of those are particularly good solutions. For Adrian she got her Special Honor for translating a short story - so again a not particularly satistfying workround with notes might be attempted.

sep 21, 9:18 am

>110 PawsforThought:

I feel like the awards for works and the awards for authors should be merged because there is plenty of overlap.

I have to disagree. First of all, I don't agree that there is "plenty of overlap". But also I think there is a huge difference between an award given to a person for a body of work, such as the Nobel Prize for Literature, and an award given for a single work, such as the Pulitzer.

Redigerat: sep 21, 1:55 pm

>114 andyl: Yeah. I don't really have an answer for non-work-based lists. People have added series-based lists using works—either all the works or just the first. I don't really object, but it's not ideal. The ideal doesn't exist.

As you say, "notes" is a good solution as far as it goes.

sep 21, 10:13 am

>115 lilithcat: As I said in my post, there are awards that have gone from giving awards to just the author and then switched to giving *the same award* to a n author for a specific work.
You don't have to agree, but there is overlap and I don't think it's right to cut awards off just because they've changed over time. And award is an award is an award. At least in my book.

sep 21, 10:15 am

>116 timspalding: The idea doesn't exist.

What do you mean by this, exactly? What idea is it that doesn't exist?

sep 21, 10:31 am

>118 PawsforThought:

I read that as a typo (missing the l at the end of ideal).

I do think that a mixed award could be implemented.

"Add a work" becomes "Add an item". You then choose Work / Series / Author (defaults to Work). The search would then search for the appropriate type of item. When the item is stored its 'type' (Work / Series / Author) is also stored - so that the appropriate link can be rendered for displaying the list. Maybe there needs to be some indication that it is a series or author (the default with no indication would be work).

The only other thing would be to decide what to do with the "You have 140 books in your library, or see them here." line.

sep 21, 10:31 am

>118 PawsforThought: I think he meant to say "The ideal doesn't exist."

sep 21, 1:55 pm

Yeah. Sorry. Typo. Ideal.

sep 21, 2:06 pm

Thanks so much for doing this! It has given me new ideas about books I might want to read.

sep 21, 2:17 pm

Back to >87 lesmel: & >91 davidgn:. Why is this split into two awards? If the award is staged -- nominees and winners -- why isn't it combined, staged, and assigned correctly? If it's staying split, shouldn't the names in LT reflect that split?

Which leads to establishing ground rules for this sort of thing to avoid editing wars or unmalicious editing.

sep 21, 2:40 pm

>123 lesmel: It was split into two awards because we previously didn't have a way to denote stages like nominees and winners. Part of what we are doing now is combining them. Here is the method I've been using:

Edit the winners list settings to include stages, then power edit the whole list and add Winner and Nominee stages to all of them.

Then go to Combine Lists and search for the nominee list to add to it. You get tick boxes for including the title, description and pictures of the list you are combining into it, and the opportunity to add Stages and Categories to everything coming in - I usually add a Nominee stage to everything coming in, in this case it looks like that's already been added.

Once they are combined there is a Helper's Hub button that will point out any likely issues - very similar categories, winners that aren't also listed as nominees etc. and you can go into Edit to fix those and merge any duplicate rows.

There are big scary "this list will disappear" messages along the way, which is good if you were randomly joining unrelated lists, but you don't really lose any information combining lists from the same award.

Redigerat: sep 21, 3:14 pm

>124 Aquila: Right, I know the historical reason; but >91 davidgn: seemed to suggest it stay split when I mentioned it in >87 lesmel:. ETA: Maybe I was reading that wrong? Maybe he meant "go ahead and combine!" and not "nope, leave those split." I didn't have a brain by then. It had been melted to goo by a training I was in.

sep 21, 3:26 pm

Yep, pretty sure that is what he meant. :)

sep 21, 3:42 pm

>125 lesmel: I've spent most of the day merging all the IPPY awards into a single award. I think those two are good to merge.

sep 21, 5:12 pm

I wonder for the issues report page in the Helper Hub – would it be useful to have a way to acknowledge and dismiss non-inclusion issues when they aren't relevant for an award without stage-by-stage progression?

For example an award with stages of:
Honorable mention

It's not appropriate to include the winners also in the honorable mentions, but the issues page would report this as "there are X works in Winner not in Honorable mention".

However there could be an award that has this, as well as shortlist and longlist where the non-inclusion would be useful to know about. So if the acknowledge+dismiss could be done on a per-stage basis I guess?

Or is that all overcomplication, and we just accept that for some awards the non-inclusion issues will have to be ignored.

sep 21, 5:35 pm

>126 Aquila: Yep, that's what I meant. :-)

Redigerat: sep 21, 5:38 pm

>127 gilroy: Thanks. I was dreading that job.

Redigerat: sep 21, 6:30 pm

>126 Aquila:, >127 gilroy:, >129 davidgn: Ha! I plunged in and got it combined. Now I feel invested and am adding all the nominees. lol

I would love a better/faster way to add 10+ titles with the same stage and year to an award. Is it faster to add a bunch of works without stages/years and then power edit?
ETA Definitely not. That leads to a different host of problems.

The workbench would be great if I could just search for works in the workbench. Am I missing a fast way to add a lot of titles to the workbench?

sep 21, 6:18 pm

>130 davidgn: The combination wasn't bad. The standardizing the categories across all the books... that was the major pain.

Redigerat: sep 21, 7:16 pm

Oppenheim needs the same treatment.

It's the sort of thing that makes me think we really need a Subcategory option.

sep 21, 7:22 pm

gilroy, you planning to finish merging the CWA awards, or should I pitch in? I renamed "Crime Writers Association Merged Awards" because last time I checked, nobody ever won a CWA Merged Award. "Crime Writers Association Award" doesn't really exist per se either, but it will probably draw fewer objections.

sep 21, 7:34 pm

I got distracted from finishing that, sorry.
Reason I called it the Merged Awards was because it was needing to be pulled apart. I was doing things backwards on that one.

Redigerat: sep 21, 7:49 pm

Yeah, I'll mention again: dozens of co-sponsored awards. Plenty all over the place, but as the most concentrated source of examples: most of the awards from the French Academy are co-sponsored by a foundation, usually matching the name of the award.

Redigerat: sep 21, 9:19 pm

>131 lesmel: Back when I was doing this stuff on an industrial scale, if I came across an award that published ISBNs of its winners/nominees, I would bulk import those. Otherwise, I would manually add by the hundreds. In either case, I would then rapid-fire click add the award down the CK fields, then delete the imported books. Worked really damn well (and pissed Tim off, because I got *really* efficient at it, to the point that it impacted the site). Not sure what I'd do now, but if I get a chance to figure it out, I'll let you know.

sep 21, 9:43 pm

Any plans on being able to browse from parent to sub orgs?
Would expect to be able to see/browse to YALSA from here, for instance.

sep 21, 10:19 pm

>138 davidgn:

I think the problem is actually that there are two ALA's, but one is deleted. Lucy?

sep 21, 10:40 pm

>141 davidgn:

Heh. Might just be cluelessness. Kill.

sep 21, 10:43 pm

Esquire what? Someone want to try and track this down?

sep 21, 10:54 pm

If anything, it's a distinction, but I think makes sense to fill out the Film adaptation CK (or whatever that's called these days) and get rid of this:

sep 22, 2:24 am

First of all I would like to thank the developers. I like the new feature very much.

I have great difficulty finding a term for "distinction" in the German language.

When translating the term, the following synonyms are suggested (back translation into English):
Distinktion (Distinction), Bedeutung (meaning), Unterschied (difference), Ruf (reputation), Auszeichnung (distinction), Preis (award), Unterscheidungsmerkmal (distinguishing feature), charakteristischer Unterschied (characteristic difference), Abgrenzung (demarcation), Unterscheidung (distinction), Scheidung (divorce), Differenzierung (differentiation).

The affiliation to "awards" still seems to be quite simple. E.g. "Nobel Prize for Literature" and "German Book Prize" to award.
But the distinction in "Distinctions" and "Lists" is not obvious to me.
There seem to be considerable cultural differences. Whether this exists also to further languages, I do not know.

Who can help me with the translation?

Could a reduction to only two categories be appropriate to bridge cultural peculiarities in the respective localizations? E.g. "Awards" and "Distinctions/Lists", "Awards/Distinctions" and "Lists", "Awards/Lists" and "Distinctions"?

I can't think of a better solution, which there will be in any case.

Translated with (free version)

sep 22, 2:49 am

>145 birder4106: Could "Vergeben" work, you think?

sep 22, 3:04 am

>145 birder4106: I agree that's a tough one. For Swedish I ended up using "Prestigious selection".

sep 22, 5:29 am

I think I know better why I stopped work on the CWA awards.

Something like the IPPY is a simple combine. It's all the same award with stages and easy to follow.
The CWA awards are each individual awards with unique (and changing) names, but all put out by a single presenter. I guess one could call them all daggers and just merge them into one CWA Dagger Awards but is the objective to lump everything or to make awards easier to navigate?

sep 22, 6:49 am

>148 gilroy:

Some of the changing name is due to the longevity and also honouring dead writers. Some have recently had the sponsor added. New Blood went to John Creasey (New Blood) to ILP John Creasey (New Blood). The wiki page for the Gold Dagger gives the naming history for that (and mentions the Silver Dagger is the runner-up).

I think the CWA consider the Daggers as a whole to be a cohesive set of awards. Their page have them under a single link whereas some of the other awards have been separated out. I think they are all awarded at the same dinner. I think it is probably a similar situation to the Academy Awards or maybe the Nobel Prize. They are technically separate awards but are cohesive enough to be seen as a singular thing in the public's mind.

As a reader and user I think that a combined daggers list would be more useful to me. I would also note that a couple of the awards are for people and at the moment have to be kept separate.

Also from the CWA awards page there seem to have used a lot of different Accolades (we call them stages) - Winner, Highly Commended, Shortlisted, Longlisted, Runner-up, Commended, Special Mention, Merit. Again the Accolades have changed from year to year.

sep 22, 7:09 am

The comments on the Daggers has prompted me to look at the Hugo and Nebula. Both have associated awards that are not considered part of the main awards.

In the Hugo's case that is the Lodestar (for Best Young Adult) and the Astounding Award (for Best New Writer). The Lodestar is separate. There really isn't a good award in LT for the Astounding Award (or for its previous name The John W. Campbell Award for Best New Writer). But as the Astounding is an award for people we can ignore it for now.

For the Nebulas there is the Andre Norton Award (for Middle Grade and Young Adult Fiction) which we have correctly as a separate award. There is also the Ray Bradbury Nebula Award for Outstanding Dramatic Presentation which some person has entered one year of into the Nebulas Award.

sep 22, 7:25 am

I don't know the examples above. My guidance would be that name changes should all be combined. An award deserves to be separate only if the name AND the criteria changed significantly. As another guiding principle, are the awards always spoken of as separate or--the social test--do people conflate them in normal conversation. The edge cases? I don't know.

sep 22, 7:34 am

>151 timspalding:

Yeah I definitely think it is a cultural thing. For the Hugos (which is one I have seen) it is quite clear that the Lodestar (and Astounding) are not Hugos although they use the same nomination and voting procedures and form. I think the Nebulas also make it a bright line. I am less clear about the culture of the CWA - I only know the awards from the pov of a consumer and consider them grouped but maybe someone who has less inside knowledge may also think that of the Hugo / Lodestar.

Redigerat: sep 22, 8:12 am

>140 timspalding: I think the problem is actually that there are two ALA's, but one is deleted. Lucy?

There are two, but neither are deleted; I don't know how they got the same name without combining; I will fix.

ETA: Fixed

sep 22, 8:25 am

>132 gilroy: The standardizing the categories across all the books... that was the major pain

If you go to the Categories page on the right you can see all the category names and update alternate spelling ones to the spelling you want (e.g., Nonfiction, Non-fiction, Non-Fiction, etc.)

sep 22, 2:45 pm

>139 davidgn: Canned all of those, adding the missing works into the Publisher Series. Guessing these were wrong-field CK entry errors.
And canned >144 davidgn:, which had the film adaptation entered.

Redigerat: sep 22, 2:52 pm

Feature request: somehow list the uploaded images from prizes associated with an organization and allow them to be yanked to the organization itself. Many times the images of the organization are already uploaded to the awards and mechanism to transfer them over could save a lot of time.

Already has the ILF logo associated. Would like to just be able to yank that upstairs (probably while leaving it on the award level as well) without having to re-upload the image.

sep 22, 2:54 pm

>157 davidgn: Good idea.

We also need to use the hash of the file to get rid of duplicates.

sep 22, 3:14 pm

Seeing a pattern of people combining nominees, etc into a main (i.e. "winners") award but leaving the main award winners with no stage. Just a reminder to go through and power edit the Stage: No Stage items to Winner, either before or after combining other stages into it.

sep 22, 4:13 pm

The RITAs need some attention to tease out whether there's any difference between "Finalist" and "Nominee" (no idea, actually), and also whether the Golden Hearts should be combined in or left separate (guessing latter)

sep 22, 4:39 pm

>154 knerd.knitter: Oh that's what I was doing. It dropped from over 400 unique categories (due to spelling, layout, etc) to somewhere around 150, I think. And that was mostly due to categories changing names over the years.

Redigerat: sep 22, 5:15 pm

We need a way to associate specific images to stages so that things like the IBBY, Deutscher Jugendliteraturpreis, etc. will display correctly (e.g. the silver versus the gold medals) once things filter through to Syndetics Unbound

sep 22, 6:14 pm

OK, well, completed the immediately apparent combining from
Which really needs about 10x the length in each category for now, if we can, just to keep things visible and not out of sight, out of mind...

Redigerat: sep 22, 6:19 pm

Helper Hub tabs on each award are unlikely to be seen unless someone is specifically working on that award. A Meta-Helper Hub collecting comments from all awards describing what needs to be done on each would be a massive boon in motivating people to help on awards in general.

Redigerat: sep 22, 8:06 pm

I'm struggling with where the "Honor book" designation goes here. I put it as a stage here, but that's not quite right. The "Honor books" won the "Honor book" designation alongside the winners of other designations.

Winner - Honor Book would not solve the categorical confusion.
Slotting them into "Winner" stage and manually appending "Honor Book" to the front of every category seems the best option, but as they say, ain't nobody got time for that. A category/subcategory division, and/or even more precisely grade division, might be the best way to handle this.
I've run into a few others that present similar conundrums.

So yeah, we need category/subcategory for things like Age Range/Subject. And we need a Grade designator for things like 1st/2nd/3rd, gold/silver/bronze/honorable mention/honor book.

sep 22, 7:05 pm

>164 davidgn:

Completely agree. Lucy, let's talk about this.

sep 22, 7:28 pm

A list of awards lacking pictures would be nice, for a number of reasons

sep 22, 7:33 pm

>164 davidgn:
>166 timspalding:

With a delay of an hour or so, perhaps? To avoid messes arising from an enthusiastic meta-helper power editing things that the original helper is still in the process of power editing?

sep 22, 7:35 pm

>168 Petroglyph: Maybe more than an hour.

Redigerat: sep 22, 7:44 pm

Curious how the "Awards and Honors by Genre" selections got made. "Accurate" is mostly covered (with notable exceptions as I pointed out elsewhere). "Well-chosen" is another story. Kind of hoping that's placeholder data.

Redigerat: sep 22, 8:02 pm

>169 davidgn: Or... instead of a delay, how about a "diving flag"? "Please don't screw with this right now, someone is down there working on it"? And maybe have that set to expire after an hour or two?

sep 22, 8:08 pm

Just finished an operation on Europese Literatuurprijs which led to a bug report. (No data of value was lost, but thought the data-into-the-void scenario warranted attention). I'll just note in passing that this prize has four joint organizational sponsors. ;-)

sep 22, 9:17 pm

CBCA awards are a giant morass, in case anyone wants a challenge.

Redigerat: sep 23, 3:21 am

>172 davidgn: I would put 'Nederlands Letterenfonds' as the first one giving the prize, but I don't see where I can change it.

sep 23, 2:45 am

>174 FAMeulstee: Under Settings on the right. Thanks.

sep 23, 2:50 am

>175 davidgn: Thank you, done.

sep 23, 4:55 am

On "Other Names". I have noticed that some people have been leaving the names of the shortlist and longlist in the names so that we have the also having the "other names" of "Waverton Good Read Award Longlist", "Waverton Good Read Award Shortlist".

I have been removing stuff like Nominee, Shortlist, Longlist from the names when I have been combining as the Award (or Prize) is known as the Hugo Award not the Hugo Award finalists (for example).

Can we come to some kind of consensus on this?

sep 23, 7:24 am

I remove those names too. No point in keeping the name related to finalist, nominee, and such if they all fall under the Award name
Redigerat: sep 23, 10:45 am

>177 andyl: I delete them when I see them. It could be people are forgetting to un-tic the box asking if you want to add the name during the combination process, or forgetting to go back and delete them afterwards. Happened to me a few times, honestly.

Redigerat: sep 23, 2:45 pm

Yeah, I'm going to go and weed those, I think. Had other things to think about, and I'm trying to get as many furrows plowed as I can while I have the chance. Thanks for the cleanup.

Redigerat: sep 23, 2:12 pm

>131 lesmel: >137 davidgn:
Had a thought. Would it be possible to feed a list of ISBNs into an award and have them populate? That would be brilliant. Take a list like this,
Extract the ISBNs with a utility like this (not sure whether this works on PDFs, but just for concept)
And boom, everything's in.

"Title, Author" lists would be the next iteration of convenience since only a minority of awards publish ISBNs. (Though obviously it would need to reject items in case of ambiguity)

sep 23, 4:17 pm

These are in with relationships, but I'm guessing we should roll all these up?

Redigerat: sep 23, 4:44 pm

Suggestion: sort this page by country. That way we know which entries have one assigned and which don't. (Most don't).

Corollary suggestion: offer a way to input the country beside the Organization field on the Settings page of the award, rather than having to go back and edit the organization directly. That way the capture might happen at time of entry.

sep 23, 5:09 pm

>170 davidgn: Curious how the "Awards and Honors by Genre" selections got made. "Accurate" is mostly covered (with notable exceptions as I pointed out elsewhere). "Well-chosen" is another story. Kind of hoping that's placeholder data.

It's a hard algorithm. I'll look at it again soon.

>177 andyl: On "Other Names". I have noticed that some people have been leaving the names of the shortlist and longlist in the names … Can we come to some kind of consensus on this?

I am definitely with you on this. Eliminate those names when you combine.

>183 davidgn: Suggestion: sort this page by country. That way we know which entries have one assigned and which don't. (Most don't).

Wow. So many. We need more and better options there, I agree.

Redigerat: sep 23, 6:08 pm

>184 timspalding: Looking at the list of organisations on that list I noticed the name of the Swedish Academy was entered in German so went in and added the Swedish name as the primary name. But the German one is still there and is also named as primary. Is that the intention? I assumed the name in the “native” language would be the primary and translations to other languages would be “Other” but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I feel like we should at least have a way to indicate what the original native name is.

ETA: Technically the organisation should even be there since they award the prize to the author and not a specific work (and it’s taking a lot of my will-power not to go in and either make major edits or completely delete). But I’d still like to know what the thought is regarding names.

Redigerat: sep 23, 5:51 pm

I have some questions for the group; I cleaned up the "Psi Phi Awards" the other day, but that was pretty simple. Today I looked at the Hugo Awards, which is much more complicated. I have a couple questions.

* The preferred nomenclature of the Hugos for the shorlist is "finalist" not "nominee." (If you think about it, anyone who gets one nomination is a nominee.) Is this a desirable change to make? Is there an easy way to make it?

* Do we record people who declined nomination? How, if so? A couple are currently recorded in the Hugo nominees... but only a couple, and it's happened much more often than that. My instinct is no-- you are either a finalist, or not, no matter the reason.

* How do we deal with categories whose name has changed? The Hugo Award for Best Related Work has only been called that since 2010; it was Best Non-Fiction Book 1980-98 and Best Related Book 1999-2009. Should these be separate categories or the same? If they are the same, how do I indicate it?

sep 23, 6:50 pm

>186 Stevil2001: Way too in the weeds for me right now. Hope other people are less nose-to-grindstone

Redigerat: sep 23, 10:36 pm

Any help searching on and combining remaining things with names like "longlist" "long list" "shortlist" "short list" "finalist" "nominee" etc. would be great. I've made a huge dent, but it's still a jungle out there. I add orgs (and images, links, etc.) as I combine, but that's a matter of workflow preference.

sep 24, 2:24 am

Anybody wants a very worthwhile award to work on filling out and getting up to date, here you go.

sep 24, 3:01 am

>165 davidgn: And just to mention in passing: in addition to the grade column (anything else will be a permanent kludge) and, ideally, a subcategory column, the biggest quality of life enhancement would be buttons to pop contents from one cell to the adjacent cell, rather than have to manually highlight and cut/paste cell contents. Lots of good work on quality of life so far, but it's going to take as much as possible to make a base of 13,000 awards records (and growing) almost maintainable with a volunteer base of unherded cats. :-)

I still don't like the forced 4-digit year. I understand locking it down, but I hope a mask to allow two four-digit years joined by a dash isn't too much to ask. ;-)

sep 24, 4:25 am

>186 Stevil2001:

On the preferred nomenclature I guess that is an artefact of just how long we have been doing Awards in CK. The change to use finalist is fairly recent (since 2016 I believe - we still used Nominee in 2015), and it would have been a pain to change it in the old system. Now of course it is a breeze and probably should be done.

I too have seen declined nominations. I am not sure that these should be recorded.

Categories with name changes. For me I think it depends. If it is a simple name change then I have no problem changing it. However Best Non-Fiction Book, Best Related Book and Best Related Work all have slightly criteria so it is a difficult one.

Redigerat: sep 24, 5:26 am

I don't know if it's do-able but some way to handle when a stage, or category simply changes its terminology (eg. it sounds like the above example it changed from "Nominee" to "Finalist" in 2015/16), to be able to tie the two items together and tell the page to display them together and filter them together. It doesn't seem right to me to enforce the current terminology of an award on all its past, so if an award did call its nominees Nominee until a certain point then I think that should be kept on the page, but having both Nominee and Finalist as stages splits the history and items.

Maybe on the Stages page and Categories page an 'alias' feature, so you can tell the page this stage/category is the same as this other stage/category? (edit: fixed typo)

Redigerat: sep 24, 5:31 am

>186 Stevil2001: >191 andyl: Declined/withdrawn nominations or awards could be handled by adding a Note: "Committee withdrew nomination", "Author declined award" or similar, if you think that's appropriate. (edit: added post reference)

sep 24, 6:04 am

>193 Nevov:
Yeah the ones I have seen have had a note, or had originally had it noted in a category.

sep 24, 2:34 pm

There are awards for translation where, naturally, the honoree is not the work author. This would seem to require an optional setting for adding an additional column for the actual honoree. See, e.g.,

Are there other such examples? Awards for cover art?

sep 24, 2:36 pm

>195 eromsted: For cover art awards, I assigned it to the work, but then put the specifics in the notes field. See here for an example:

Redigerat: sep 25, 7:23 am

>196 Stevil2001: Thanks. That may be the best option for now. But a dedicated field that would link to the translator's (or cover artist's) author page would be better.

Redigerat: sep 25, 3:15 am

It's not like old times. In theory, as freelancer, I'm flexible, but I can't do another weekend like this without pay for a while. But I think I made a real dent. :-)

sep 25, 8:15 am

>185 PawsforThought: I assumed the name in the “native” language would be the primary and translations to other languages would be “Other” but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Each language can have a primary name and will be used on the appropriate language site.

sep 25, 10:02 am

>199 knerd.knitter: And in the case where there is no name for the language site in question, which language will be used? In this case there were names in German and Swedish, and on the English site the German name was shown.

sep 25, 10:09 am

>200 PawsforThought: And in the case where there is no name for the language site in question, which language will be used? In this case there were names in German and Swedish, and on the English site the German name was shown.

I think it uses the one that is the default for the award which is what you see on the Settings page.

sep 25, 10:14 am

>201 knerd.knitter: I'd check but I can't find the award now.

Redigerat: sep 25, 12:51 pm

Cool new feature here:

Basically, we're using AI to pick the works out of a blob of text, so you can add a lot of works quickly.

sep 25, 1:25 pm

>203 timspalding: Holy force multipliers, Batman!

sep 25, 1:58 pm

>204 davidgn:

Yep just used the add multiples. You do have to keep your eyes peeled - it doesn't pick up every work - however it makes inputting a number of works much faster.

sep 25, 2:44 pm

I have added the ability to view the Organize page in a filtered way. The way to do it is from an award's main page, select one or more filters (stage, category, year) and from the filtered view the Organize link on the side will actually take you to that filtered view and will only allow updating things in that set. At this point, there's no way to get to this view from the Organize page if you're looking at the top level; also the breadcrumbs take you back to the main award page where you would have to re-enter the Organize page, but at least for now this is working and can be used to hopefully make some editing easier.

sep 25, 3:13 pm

>206 knerd.knitter:
I think that might have escaped early - I was using that yesterday. I was very impressed that the filtered organize was able to be implemented so quickly.

sep 25, 4:09 pm

>207 andyl: Lol, it did not escape early, I released it last week but didn't announce until today. I wasn't sure if we were going to add more to the feature, but we've agreed that this is okay for now.

Redigerat: sep 26, 3:33 am

Just gonna note in passing: love the drag to upload for images. Don't love it so much when I drag what turns out to be a WebP or SVG onto it.
The site still needs to support those, one of these years.

sep 26, 12:21 pm

We just added a few new features for the awards
-Added comments and issues to global helper hub
-Added dismiss button on issues under helper hub
-Added option to copy images from an award to its organization

sep 26, 4:50 pm

>210 knerd.knitter: Nice. Thanks.

Redigerat: sep 26, 10:19 pm

I see the add by magic isn't picking up on my test list of several hundred ISBNs extracted from the PDF of this year's CCBC Choices. Any plans on making that sort of thing work?
For now, I'm going to try an import and see if it picks up on the title and authors from my library collection. Seems rather roundabout as a workflow, but not impossible. Will let you know how it goes.

ETA: Looks like it works with batches of 20 or so. Much more, it times out. Better than manual, but still kinda pokey.

Redigerat: sep 27, 12:11 am

Workflow report: So it took until now (ETA about an hour) to finish, and ChatGPT missed three or four titles and misidentified two out of 273 compared to the ISBNs. One of the printed ISBNs seems to have been off as well (would have been 274), and now I need to actually look through the text to assign the categories and double-check everything. Not bad, but a path to a straight import of 274 ISBNs (5 minutes max to extract, on my end) without the hour of batch feeding and imperfect title/author matches would have saved, well, an hour, and now I still have to do the category assignment anyhow.

ETA: There were supposed to be 273. So that, at least, checks out. Going to add the past few years tonight, categories in future.

ETA: N.B. ChatGPT actually seems to work slightly *better* with a copy of a 20-item catalog page text with only name and author columns, plus the assorted end-of-column noise, than with the "cleaner" Power Edit view of names and titles alone. That's convenient.

sep 27, 3:51 am

>210 knerd.knitter: You're a poet!

sep 27, 6:57 am

Note in passing: needing to manually refresh to see added images after upload is annoying.

sep 27, 7:44 am

Would suggest a separate award for adding announcements. Should be specifically encouraged as that could be very dynamic if we can put together a large enough calendar.

sep 27, 8:08 am

>216 davidgn: Would suggest a separate award for adding announcements. Should be specifically encouraged as that could be very dynamic if we can put together a large enough calendar.

I don't think I understand what you mean.

Redigerat: sep 27, 8:15 am

Sorry, I'm terse in the wee hours. There is no LT award/badge at the moment for adding announcement dates to awards, and I think it would be useful to have one. If we can fill out a comprehensive awards calendar, it could create a lot of buzz and help encourage keeping the awards up to date.

Maybe not the top priority just yet. Still a lot of cleanup work to be done, not to mention award updating. But something to keep in mind.

sep 27, 8:12 am

>215 davidgn: Note in passing: needing to manually refresh to see added images after upload is annoying.

That is not how it should be; I will fix that.

sep 27, 8:29 pm

>212 davidgn:

I see the add by magic isn't picking up on my test list of several hundred ISBNs extracted from the PDF of this year's CCBC Choices. Any plans on making that sort of thing work?

Yeah, it's not designed for ISBNs. I'll add that now.

>213 davidgn:


>215 davidgn: Adding to Lucy's list to check.

Ah. She's looking.

>216 davidgn: Would suggest a separate award for adding announcements. Should be specifically encouraged as that could be very dynamic if we can put together a large enough calendar.

Excellent idea. Will do.

sep 27, 8:52 pm

>220 timspalding:

Added the award.

Redigerat: sep 27, 9:04 pm

>213 davidgn: davidgn:

Yeah, I know. I'm gonna need to start looking for grants or something if I'm gonna keep putting in these kinds of hours, because I can't afford it long-term. But striking while the iron is hot, and the excuse that I'm still recovering from surgery remains vaguely valid. Housekeeping to be done, systems to be tested, development to be guided. Only been waiting a decade for this. :-p

Redigerat: sep 27, 9:38 pm

Another thought on announcements: some sort of reminder, based on the periodicity of the award, that it's coming up on the relevant anniversary of the last announcement we have on file (and that it might be worthwhile to figure out when the next announcement is expected) could be very helpful.

sep 27, 9:19 pm

sep 27, 9:45 pm

>224 timspalding: Neat, thanks.

sep 27, 9:50 pm

Is there a way to remove images from awards? Example: -- two images that are identical.

Also, how do we record that we've been given permission to use the images/logos for the awards?

sep 27, 9:56 pm

>220 timspalding:

Yeah, it's not designed for ISBNs. I'll add that now.

I've added it. That's all you get for tonight!

sep 27, 10:09 pm

>227 timspalding: :-p
Thanks, Tim.

sep 27, 10:48 pm

This one has gone from winner/honor books to gold medals/silver medals.

Any way to make the medals float to the top, or generally to reorder the way stages (or really, grades, but that's not on offer yet) appear?

Redigerat: sep 28, 12:14 am

>226 lesmel: Not yet that I've discovered. Unless you're me, in which case chances are good I was the person who uploaded at least one of the now-duplicates, and I can just nuke that. Doesn't always work, though. ;-)

As for your other question: *clears throat*
Something something DMCA.
We don't record permission anymore since... well, the noughties, I think.

sep 28, 2:17 am

Can we split out announcements by category as well as stage? Looks like the YA Stonewalls are announced separately, for instance.

sep 28, 2:34 am

Button under an organization to "Create New Award By This Organization" would be great.

sep 28, 2:44 am

>229 davidgn: Yes, you can reorder the stages under 'Stages' by dragging them with your mouse.

sep 28, 2:57 am

>233 FAMeulstee: D'oh. OK, you'd think I'd have tried that. Is it persistent? Thanks.

Redigerat: sep 28, 2:58 am

Feature request: ISBN lookup in ChatGPT field works great, but would be cool to have enabled in the single search field too. I find myself wanting to enter singletons that way, and having ISBNs, I want to enter them there, but I get no results.

sep 28, 2:59 am

>234 davidgn: Don't forget to 'Save' :-)

Redigerat: sep 28, 3:50 am

With an eye to future periodicity functionality in announcements, an option to mark an award as non-annual would be good. Biennial here. --

So if there were a "biennial" option to tick here, it might set a reminder somewhere based on the previous announcement in January 2022 to check on the next announcement sometime in December 2023.

Obviously a collection of Twitter accounts and feeds will be in order as well, but this is a failsafe for very little additional effort.

Oh, and obviously, it would make sense to be able to mark an award as inactive.
(RIP: )

sep 28, 7:29 am

>237 davidgn: I know of a handful of awards that are given out on either three or five year intervals, and one that is given out "semi-regularly" (every three to six years, normally).

sep 28, 8:01 am

>231 davidgn: Can we split out announcements by category as well as stage?

You already can add categories to announcements.

Redigerat: sep 30, 4:21 am

>239 knerd.knitter: D'oh. Found it. Thanks! ETA: That's the field I filtered out of existence in my mind because "it's the one you always accidentally paste the URLs into."
ETA: And I guess it filters itself out on awards without categories set. I must have been looking at an example of one such.

Redigerat: sep 30, 4:22 am

Once we get the orgs onto the awards and the countries onto the orgs, in terms of displays like the Zeitgeist one, I'm thinking: tiny flags. (Or is that too '90s Web?)

sep 30, 8:36 am

I would love this to connect up with Events - but I can't find events anymore. Have they been phased out?

To me it would make sense to have the following relations:
Organisation -> hold -> Event -> where -> Award ceremony (another event, I guess?) -> gives out -> Award -> to -> Recipient

Organisation -> sponsor -> Event -> where -> Award ceremony (another event, I guess?) -> gives out -> Award -> to -> Recipient

Organisation -> participate in -> Event

Organisation -> sponsor -> Award -> to -> Recipient

Organisation -> nominate -> Recipient -> to -> Award

An example is:
An Organisation ( holds a yearly Event ( where a number of award ceremony take place, and Awards (,, are awarded by different Organisations (,, The Awards may be sponsored by one or more Organisations ( and nominated by any number of Organisations

The Organisation (
also awards at least one Award ( at the Event it holds.

sep 30, 8:46 am

I want to say events were phased out a year ago, but it might have been sooner than that.

sep 30, 10:30 am

>242 amberwitch: Yes, I wanted to add a book sale as an event too and looked in vain.

sep 30, 11:47 am

There was a little discussion in Aug 2022 on the events feature being concluded:
The Local revamp announcement topic followed a couple of days later at:

sep 30, 12:48 pm

>245 Nevov: thank you! I hadn’t noticed it was gone until I needed it:)

Redigerat: okt 1, 12:48 am

Combined the "shortlist" and "longlist"s, plus a bunch of others. That's 1,200 archived. Still have nominees and finalists of various stripes, ~500, and then all the other combining without those obvious labels. Going to make a back-of-napkin estimate that we'll actually have about 9,000-10,000 listings once combination is completed.

Could still use all the help I can get on this.

okt 1, 6:46 am

I'm a completeist. If I combine something, I have to complete the work of actually correcting all the merges before I go to the next list.
You probably have a lot of those out there, where rather than rush to combine everything, they are working slowly, one award at a time.

Redigerat: okt 2, 2:37 am

>248 gilroy: My personal philosophy is that combining is, at worst, making existing messiness visible. As long as I'm not losing any data, I'm happy to leave things a bit dishevelled to be sorted out later because in reality, they're already dishevelled. It's just not readily apparent until the combination is done. ;-)

Probably has a lot to do with my tendency to focus on author combining over work combining elsewhere on LT.

Redigerat: okt 2, 8:22 am

Ideally the 9 youth-oriented Forest of Reading awards ( ) would be rolled up into one umbrella, with the Evergreen and the Light Reads, Great Stories (awarded separately and on different calendars) associated to it. Unfortunately, with only one level of category available in the system as it stands, that would require doubling up in the category field, with lots of manual cut and paste. Argument for additional subcategory level (assuming your faceting scheme can accommodate it). Or at the very least, an option to prepend or postpend one category into another on combining/archiving, rather than replace.

Taking a few days off from the prize stuff.
ETA: Seriously.

Redigerat: okt 2, 8:19 pm

Did the algo seriously just add Goodreads Choice to the Literature column?
ETA: Probably good for SEO, actually...

Redigerat: okt 2, 12:43 pm

The "add by magic" is amazing. Just added a bunch of missing Hugo finalists from 1956, and I only had to look up four on their own. Thanks for this feature.

okt 3, 11:19 pm

An option to set a picture as primary when uploading would be nice.
Also, after uploading, while the images appear, I still have to reload before being able to click on them to do things like, well, set them as primary. That might be a bug?

Redigerat: okt 4, 6:41 am

On the add by magic feature, can we have it count the number of books it finds and display that info so the enterer doesn't have to do that every time? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 .. 17 -- or was that 16?

Redigerat: okt 4, 8:23 am

Would be nice to have the primary image display in the top right, in the white space to the right of the award name. (Or, for awards that have different images for different award segments, *grades* (or maybe "gradations," or "classes," to avoid the inevitable confusion with school grades/age groups), or categories, to have each show up along with the segments for which it will be displayed in Syndetics Unbound.)

ETA: Even better: empty boxes for each award segment into which the appropriate image can be dragged. Might be best to have a toggle-able view to display or hide the empty ones, with a default to hide. That way, only people working on editing the awards would need to see them.

Canonical example: (those three images are not identical)
Or whatever the kids are playing nowadays.

okt 4, 8:10 am

>253 davidgn: An option to set a picture as primary when uploading would be nice

I can add that, but as far as being able to click on the image, that will still require a refresh. Also, the new image always gets displayed first on reload, so if you upload something that's not primary it will still show first until you refresh.

>254 davidgn:

I will look into adding that.

okt 4, 1:26 pm

How about a notes field on announcements?

okt 4, 2:03 pm

Are every book listed in this award considered winners? If so, can I remove the stage for it?

Redigerat: okt 4, 2:06 pm

>258 gilroy: Every book listed, yes. But it also has shortlists.
So better to change everything to Winners, then add the shortlist stage.

okt 4, 2:07 pm

>259 davidgn: Was just coming back to edit that, because I found a finalist listed in our old listings.

Redigerat: okt 5, 12:04 am

OK, so scenario. I'm a user who doesn't work much with awards but wants to try. I go to and see the California Young Reader Medal Nominees for 2024 were announced August 10 without having been added. I want to add them. I click on "California Young Reader Medal > Nominee > 2024." It takes me here.

I click on the link "Nominee > 2024' after August 10.
It brings me here again.

Which is to say it does nothing. Rather disconcerting. There was a URL helpfully input with the award announcement, but I would never know that. To access that info, I need to go to Announcements at right and manually dig it up. Which means I need prior knowledge that that's what needs to be done, or I need to do a lot of poking around. Meh, I think I have to shave my ocelot today. I'll go do that instead.

Can we think of ways to make this more intuitive and accessible to casual prize-helping?

ETA: Also, if I'm adding works starting at, why do the fields default to the same (blank) values as if I were adding from Wouldn't it make sense to have the relevant stages/categories/years pre-filled so that I don't have to mentally keep track of them?

Redigerat: okt 5, 5:23 am

Oh: and can we have the "Make Primary Picture" on upload not ticked by default?

okt 5, 7:58 am

>263 davidgn: Oh: and can we have the "Make Primary Picture" on upload not ticked by default?


okt 5, 12:21 pm

I would like to pick people's brains.

I am working on the Excelsior Awards -

Recent years are fine - 4 categories each with a winner and an overall winner.

I have now worked back to 2018. For these years there are 2 categories. One has a first, second and third place. The other just has a winner.

Obviously I could use Winner for first place. Would "Second Place" and "Third Place" be stages?

okt 5, 12:24 pm

>265 andyl: As things stand, probably that's the way to go. Just make sure to drag the stages into an order that make sense.
Still have fingers crossed for grades/classes. That's the only clean solution.

okt 5, 12:28 pm

Here's a thought: where we have a link on an award (or, for that matter, elsewhere) to a Wikipedia article, could we set up an automated process to automatically go trawling through Wikidata to pull up links on the same award in other-language Wikipedias?



af Alba Bouwerprys vir Kinderliteratuur
en Alba Bouwer Prize
hu Alba Bouwer-díj

Being able to get the Afrikaans Wikipedia link "for free" would be pretty nice. (Maybe a button to run a process to search for the other languages, with tickboxes to choose which ones to add from the results?)

Yeah, we're getting into pony territory, but I think it's a cool idea.

okt 6, 12:51 am

One more tweak. I didn't realize it was possible, but apparently now when I add an image to an award that doesn't have an image without ticking the Make Primary Image box, the image uploads but, despite being the only image, is not set as the primary. So that needs to change, if we can. If it's the *only* image, it needs to be the primary.

Redigerat: okt 6, 1:52 am

Okay, so I tried following a prize. Now what? Is there some page where the list of prizes I'm following is tracked? Will I get notifications or something? I have no idea what the significance of having starred that thing is. And if I'm clueless...

I mean, I'll probably run some experiments at some point and figure it out. But it shouldn't be quite this opaque. (Now, I haven't checked, but I'm going to guess the same issue is going to apply to the "new" series system.)

okt 6, 2:05 am

>269 davidgn: "Okay, so I tried following a prize. Now what? Is there some page where the list of prizes I'm following is tracked?"

Yes, on the general award page -> and on your stats award page ->

okt 6, 2:16 am

>270 Taliesien: Thanks for explaining it to me. I wish the system had.

Redigerat: okt 6, 2:54 am

A spot on the Add Award page to include the official homepage link might be nice too. Maybe not worth it to drag the whole Links apparatus into that, but a single field mapping to Official Homepage. Or maybe other link type options too. Probably just one field for the initial capture, though. I keep looking for it and it's not there. Could be just me?

okt 6, 3:50 am

How about an option to split out rows with multiple years, similar to the one that exists for categories. ?

Max's Bedtime by Rosemary Wells (...) 1985; 1998

okt 6, 7:54 am

>268 davidgn: If it's the *only* image, it needs to be the primary.

I might be able to make it default to checked if there are no other pictures, but forcing it to be primary is outside my code.

>269 davidgn: I tried following a prize. Now what?

As Taliesien says in >270 Taliesien:, it shows in those two places. There's also plans to make notifications for awards you follow.

>273 davidgn: How about an option to split out rows with multiple years

That is not a bad idea; I will add it to my list.

Redigerat: okt 6, 7:55 am

>274 knerd.knitter: re >268 davidgn: That would do the trick.

Otherwise: thanks.

Redigerat: okt 6, 8:12 am

Niggling thing: are we granting the validity of "X" for Twitter?
Maybe "X (Twitter)" in the Links dropdown?

okt 6, 8:45 am

DAWCL is down, but people might find it useful for Anglo-centric children's awards -- particularly the calendar for announcements. Cached:

okt 6, 10:44 am

Feature request (kinda):
When one uses the main search page, it would be nice to sort alphabetically like we used to be able to. It would make seeing similar named awards easier, to better determine if they need merging.

okt 6, 5:33 pm

Just an FYI for anyone looking to update awards...if your local library has access to Gale: Books and Authors, there's a HUGE cache of awards lists that are fairly up to date.

Redigerat: okt 12, 10:45 pm

I added the wrong year to Mortal Sight (The Colliding Line) by Sandra Fernandez Rhoads it should be 2021. How do I change it?


EDIT: found

Redigerat: okt 12, 9:16 pm

Those are actually already in as the following:
If you don't mind, I'll combine your work into that, keeping the name you entered as a variant.

But to answer your question on the mechanics: you'd click on "The Christy Award" at top left to return to the top level, then go to Edit at right and click Organize.

okt 12, 10:37 pm

Thank you, I even tried Ctrl+F to search for it. Sorry for the extra work.

okt 12, 10:44 pm

>281 davidgn: I looked at the link, and I've got a question. I've never seen a 'Nominee' list, just the weeded to 'Finalist' list and then the 'Winner' list and 'Book of the Year'. Where can I find the nominee list?

okt 12, 10:45 pm

>279 lesmel: Thank you I'll look.

Redigerat: okt 12, 11:07 pm

>283 TrinityFellowshipChu: Others who have worked on this more extensively might have a better idea, but it's unclear to me at this point whether the nominee lists are different from the finalist lists. Worth nailing down.

The nominees are obviously not archived on the website, but they may be announced via social media (and could potentially be found by looking back into the history of social posts). And they certainly get recapitulated elsewhere (e.g. and cf.
Compare those nominee lists with the finalist lists preserved on the website and you'll have the answer to whether they're identical and whether it makes sense to track them down.

Also: no worries. :-)

okt 14, 7:05 pm

I've marked some awards as Needs Help. I am sure some others may have also done so too.

Is there an easy way for people to find awards marked as "Needs Help"?

okt 15, 5:11 am

>286 andyl:

Yeah - not really ideal for findability, as you have to be on that award in the first place.

Looking at this year's JCB Prize shortlist and the EU Prize for Literature shows that coverage of non-English works is pretty patchy in comparison to English works. 3 out of 10 works were found for the JCB shortlist. 4 works were found for the EUPL nominees (out of 13)

Redigerat: okt 15, 6:15 am

>288 andyl: That is because the EU Prize for Literature looks to be the European Union Prize for Literature, they should probably be combined.
I will look into this prize later today.

ETA It looks like some South-African prize (first entry 2004, last 2014) got tangled into this prize, but I can't find what prize it is. Anyone with better searching skills?

okt 15, 9:56 am

We currently have two awards - Polaris Book Prize and Polari First Book Prize

These are awarded by the same organisation, shortlists appear on the same announcement, they are awarded at the same time. They appear together on the official website (for example Polari Prize)

I would like to see these merged (with different categories). Is there anyone who sees a reason why they should remain separate?

Redigerat: okt 15, 2:15 pm

>288 andyl: Look again. That's already been sorted. cf. >164 davidgn: >166 timspalding:
There is a Global Helper Hub.
and Global Comments:

Redigerat: okt 15, 2:25 pm

>289 FAMeulstee: Don't see them in there anymore. Have you figured it out, or should we start trawling the logs?

Redigerat: okt 15, 2:19 pm

>290 andyl: I was a bit on the fence just based on how they were presented in various contexts, but I have a mental note to return to the question when feeling more decisive. Don't see the harm in it.

okt 15, 2:27 pm

>289 FAMeulstee:

Good work on the "European Union Prize for Literature". I must admit I was on the fence about listing the country as a comment. It isn't really a category.

Redigerat: okt 15, 3:00 pm

>292 davidgn: Found it:
and (cached: )

looks like "Dinaane Debut Fiction Award"

ETA: And yeah, without looking at the logs, I'm going to guess I'm the culprit here. Thanks for the catch.

Redigerat: okt 15, 2:41 pm

I need help about the correct English terms to use

I am editing the Premio Strega (Italian award), and the rules of this award say that there are first 12 works selected, and then among them the jury selects 5 works, and among these last 5 the winner is chosen.

Leaving aside the winner, obviously, the other 11 works are Shortlist or Nominees? The other 4 "finalists" are Shortlist or Nominees (or "Finalist")?

I don't understand the difference clearly.


okt 15, 2:41 pm

>296 Moloch: How about Longlist and Shortlist? It is a common enough concept in similar awards with similar patterns.

okt 15, 2:44 pm

Redigerat: okt 15, 2:51 pm

>296 Moloch: Without looking, I'm going to guess that confusion will be equally present in the English-language sources, which may themselves be variant translations and/or interpolations. Ideally, I'd go back to the Italian sources (primary and secondary), find out what they call them, and translate directly to the nearest English cognate. But yes, failing that, longlist and shortlist should be fine.

okt 15, 4:32 pm

>294 andyl: I had doubts where to list the country, I thought category was the easiest way to go.

>295 davidgn: Thanks! I hadn't mentioned I removed them from the European Union Prize for Literature.
I now will rename the EU Prize for Literature (South Africa) into Dinaane Debut Fiction Award.

Searching for this award I found: 'The Dinaane Debut Fiction Award – formerly the European Union Literary Award – is a South African literary award, open to South African and SADC writers who are residents of these countries.'

That explains why it was listed with the former name. I have added the recent winners.
Den här diskussionen fortsatte här: Big update to Awards and Honors #2