Half Blood Prince Discussion, chapters 6-10

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Half Blood Prince Discussion, chapters 6-10

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1biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 9:09am

Okay, I tried to do this already and the computer restarted and I lost my post. Very annoying. This week we are reviewing:

Chapter 6: Draco's Detour
Chapter 7: The Slug Club
Chapter 8: Snape Victorious
Chapter 9: The Half-Blood Prince
Chapter 10: The House of Gaunt

Have at it!

2biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 9:31am

Okay, I'll see if I can get things rolling, but it's already starting to get pretty busy here, so it might take awhile. Chapter 6:

1. I noticed we get a quick aside about Regulus ("Sirius' brother Regulus didn't last a month after deserting the Death Eaters") so that we get a little reminder of his existence.

2. What do you suppose Bill & Fleur are going to do all alone at the Burrow? ;)

3. Does it surprise anyone else the Malfoys would shop at Diagon Alley at all. And that shopkeepers would wait on them. Fear do you think? I mean, everyone knows that Lucius is in Azkaban for being a Death Eater. Just seems odd.

4. I'm sorry to say it, but when George says "Right you are Verity," he reminds me of Percy!

5. I love that they couldn't see Draco pointing at the cabinet because the cabinet was in the way. Just another one of JKR's fun little jokes. Telling us what he's talking about without telling us what he's talking about.

That's all the notes I have for this chapter. I'll also say, I love Weasley's Wizard Wheezes! U-No-Poo!

3pollysmith
Redigerat: maj 19, 2008, 10:04am

okay
1. also lets us know that sirius isn't the only Black who chooses the "right"

2. If I have to tell you then you are too young to know!

3.I don't think its odd, they have always shopped there like everyone else, the shop owners - hey business is business!

4. oh well, family traits I suppose

5. thats why she's the millionaire author and we the lowly readers! (sigh)

4biblioholic29
Redigerat: maj 19, 2008, 10:10am

#3-2: LOL!

#3-3: I had thought about that, the money is money argument. I know that you really can't blame the wife and child of the criminal for what their spouse/dad did; however, the way they spoke to Harry left absolutely no question as to where their loyalties lay. I think at that point I would refuse to serve them. That's why I wonder if it was more fear as to what could happen to her (remembering Fortescue and Ollivander) that had Madam Malkin trying to keep their business. Or maybe she is just shallow and money is money, but that idea makes me sad.

#3-5: Too true!

5pollysmith
maj 19, 2008, 10:14am

3-3 thats also very true bib, fear will overcome pride, it would be great to refuse to serve the family of a death eater but prehaps not while V is walking around! maybe thats why they took fortescue and ollivander.

6biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 10:18am

Yes, I'm afraid that is probably it. It brings up an interesting question for all the shopkeepers I'm sure. For instance, I'd like to think that Forge would stand up and not allow known Death Eaters to shop at Weasley's Wizard Wheezes, and yet Malfoy later has Peruvian Instant Darkness Powder. I don't know what I would do in that situation. I'd like to think that I would stand up for what is right and not cave into fear, but I probably would (cave in I mean). Perhaps I would work in the underground resistance though.

7pollysmith
maj 19, 2008, 10:21am

hmmmmm....the instant darkness powder. Maybe Draco wrote to Peru and got it? or more likely he had a lesser known person go get it

8biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 10:24am

I also wondered if maybe he ordered it through the mail and Verity is the one who filled it. She wouldn't have recognized the name. I doubt he could have actually gone into the store without one of the twins seeing him. I suppose he also could have had Pansy get it for him, I don't think Nott, Goyle or Crabbe would be any more welcome than Malfoy.

Could I be overthinking all this? Surely not, I never overthink Harry Potter... ;)

9pollysmith
maj 19, 2008, 10:29am

overthinking? never! but I maintain that Draco could have got anyone to go in, say a younger child... "hey kid! I'll give you a sicle to go in there and buy this for me!....type thing

I don't think that forge would have served any of that group at all, they would not have been afraid of V after all.
I love Molly's reaction to the sign for U-no-poo! altho I must wonder who would want to buy that!

10biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 10:41am

You're right, I hadn't thought of that, he could have just grabbed any kid off the street. (Actually another scary thought considering what was going on in the Wizarding world! I'm now imagining the next Ministry flyer "Teaching your Children not to buy Joke Items for Strangers"!)

I think U-No-Poo is a joke item to be used on others, not yourself. Kind of the opposite of Exlax brownies. Not a very funny joke but I believe that's the intention. *shrugs*

11biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 11:06am

Okay, have we sufficiently exhausted that topic? I'll post my chapter 7 thoughts:

1. I have never noticed, when does Malfoy get the Hand of Glory? I always read that sentence where Ron talks about Malfoys "rotting old hand thing" and I seriously don't remember him getting it in the books. I remember him asking for it in CoS, but not getting it. What am I missing?

2. One of the things I love in this book is everyone saying it can't be Moalfoy (and Snape) but for once it is. Brilliant classic mystery writing! It's never the obvious choice, until it is no longer obvious!

3. "It was like having friends." Oh Luna!

4. I like the little Harry and Ginny hints.

5. The girls who come to the compartment to ask Harry to sit with them remind me of a very specific moment of my own life...I am ashamed to say I have played the "You ask him" "No, you ask him." game.

6. There must be a ton of Wrackspurts where I work!

7. I think it was interesting to have Harry be petrificoused (sp? Not that you could tell since it's a made up word, so we'll say it's right!). We've seen plenty of people under this spell, but have never gotten a description of what it was like, which I think is fun. (Not that being under the spell sounds fun, it sounds awful!)

12pollysmith
maj 19, 2008, 1:45pm

I looked up Hand of Glory in the lexicon and it did not say how Draco acquired it, only that he had itin hbp. so lets conjecture, maybe he got it as a birthday gift sometime? maybe .........

yes brilliant

Luna makes me cry sometimes

Yeah I'm glad they finally got together

I've never played that game, but I have had guys do the same kinda thing to me on a dare.

i think I have an infestation of those wrackspurt things in my brain. Don't you love Luna waving her hands as though she was waving away flies!

yes poor harry! Helpless to do anything to protect himself!

13biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 1:51pm

Boring Chapter 7 notes I guess. Although I really do want someone to address #1. Oh well, here's Chapter 8:

1. There's an auror named Proudfoot. Tolkein reference?

2. I suppose the lock on the gate has a silent Password? I'm just saying because when Alohomora didn't work Tonks said DD did the enchantment. All Snape had to do was tap it though, and it seems if there's an enchantment where you tap the lock and it opens Voldy would know about it. So silent password? Or maybe only certain people are "authorized" to tap the lock?

3. Ron insulting Nick and stuffing his face -- it must the the start of term feast!

4. I always wonder why Snape allows students who got less than an "O" into D.A.D.A. when he won't let them into Potions. Seems odd.

5. In his speech DD says something about everyone there knowing about Voldy and therefore understanding about stricter security, but would the first-year muggle-borns have any idea? I wonder what they would have thought upon getting their letters, heading to Diagon Alley and finding it the way we saw it in this book. Would you even want to go to that school after hearing what was going on? Especially after learning that muggleborns were particularly hated by Voldy.

14biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 1:54pm

Ah, just when I had given up hope of having a two (or more) way conversation, Polly to the rescue!

That's interesting that its not in the Lexicon. I find it so strange that Ron talks about the Hand as if it's something that Draco has had forever. I suppose he must have gotten it as a gift sometime but I really don't think it was mentioned...

15pollysmith
maj 19, 2008, 1:59pm

WOW first getting a letter saying you were a muggleborn wizard and then finding out that you were likely to be killed for being what you are....as a child I'd still be going 'bring it on..' but as a muggle parent? hmmmmm

possibly it was too late for snape to do anything about it....?

Ron, food, and Nick, a recipe for da laughter!

16biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 2:06pm

Re Snape: I was thinking something along those lines but we see in the next chapter that they are able to change their schedules. Harry and Ron are able to sign up for Potions and Neville is denied Transfiguration but allowed into Charms. I was thinking maybe (I now it's a long shot) Harry was then only one to get an "O" (remember even Hermione got an "E") and Snape didn't want to be stuck in a class with just Harry?

17foggidawn
Redigerat: maj 19, 2008, 2:47pm

Ooh, discussion!

11.1 -- Like Polly, I always assumed that, at some point between CoS and HBP, Draco whined until he got the thing. Not sure how Ron knows that he has it, though.

11.2 -- I agree, it is brilliant. For once, Harry is right about Malfoy (and, yes, Snape).

11.3 -- Oh, Luna. She's such a wonderful character. I remember that feeling -- I didn't have many friends in high school, but about my sophomore year of undergrad, I made several really good friends, ones I treasure to this day. If I were artistic, I would paint their pictures on my ceiling (along with my HE friends too, of course)!

11.6 -- I think I have a contingent of wrackspurts permanently assigned to me!

13.1 -- An homage, perhaps?

13.2 -- I'll bet only certain people are "authorized." Also, Snape is really good at nonverbal spells.

13.4 -- I think that, if he had only allowed students with a perfect grade in DADA, he would have been doing private lessons with Harry again -- and we all know how much he would love that! I mean, due to the constantly changing quality of teachers in that subject, even Hermione didn't get an "O"! (Note: I typed this before I read down to post #16. Exactly!)

13.5 -- It seems like I remember hearing that someone from Hogwarts usually goes to talk to muggleborn students, to explain that the letter isn't a hoax, and to tell them how to get to Diagon Alley and so on. I'll bet that person (one of the staff, or DD himself) explained about Voldy, and gave them assurances that the school was being kept secure.

(Edited for typos.)

18biblioholic29
maj 19, 2008, 3:01pm

#17

11.1 That's what bugs me. If Ron knows about it than we should have heard about him getting it at some point. I'm wondering if it was edited out of a previous book and she forgot about it?

11.3 Hmm...I don't think I could do faces on my ceiling, it might be nice to do a faux bookshelf with the names of all my LT buddies as the titles though...

11.6 It's nice to know I'm not the only one!

13.1 Homage is a better word. Thank you!

13.2 Oh, I assumed there was a non-verbal spell going on, but I also assumed that it was just a non-verbal spell, Voldy could get it (and some of his Death Eaters). I think I like the "authorized" idea, which would explain why Tonks couldn't do it.

13.4 Great minds!

13.5 Now that you mention it, I do remember that. I'm still not sure how I would feel about attending, especially if I was a Muggle parent like polly suggested. I suppose they could think like the P.M. "You can do magic..."

19littlegeek
maj 19, 2008, 3:36pm

I think the reason I didn't like this book as much the first time I read it was that all the mysteries seemed really obvious. It was clear what Draco's mission was, and I swear, the very first name that occurred to me as to who the HBP was was Snape. I mean, who else do we know that is a genius in potions? As the boys became more & more enamoured of him, I knew I had to be right. It seemed real obvious to me. Then I heard that people were really stumped about it. *shrug*

I love Luna. I want a t-shirt that says "it was like having friends."

I'll be back. Stupid work is horrible again and will be for the next few weeks. *sigh*

20biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 8:22am

I was pretty sure I knew what was going on as well, I always thought Harry was pretty close to the truth, however, remembering that this is a children's book, this will likely be the first time many of the younger readers have been exposed to the conventions of mystery writing. For these kids, I think she writes a perfect mystery here.

21biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 8:31am

Okay, so I'll go ahead and post my thoughts on Chapter 9 now:

1. My love affair with McG continues with Neville's schedule. What a great way to make him feel better about himself. And I do hope she wrote that letter to his Gran!

2. Why didn't we see Quiddich try-outs like this before? We (sort of) saw Keeper try-outs in OotP, but never have pre-established members had to try-out. It seems strange to suddenly change the way its done (although I understand why she had to do it to get Ginny and Dean and everybody on the team.)

3. "Snape didn't know that Harry had secretly taught half the class a Shield Charm the year before." (not an exact quote, but close enough). Why? Shouldn't Snape, as a member of the Order, have known what was going on? The Order knew about the meeting in the Hog's Head because of Mundungus, and then he knew that Umbridge caught Harry leading a secret meeting, which is why DD left. I'm thinking Snape was smart enough to put two and two together. I suppose we could be getting that statement from Harry's perspective, and he could be obtuse enough not to realize that Snape knew, still, not a sentence that needed to be there, it really doesn't make sense.

4. "There's no need to call me 'sir' Professor." Makes me laugh everytime.

5. I love that Hermione memorized Harry's speech and then later in the chapter there's a nice turnaround where Hermione gets to hear the nice things Harry's said to Slughorn about her.

6. Good old Amortentia -- shipper heaven!

22foggidawn
maj 20, 2008, 9:43am

21.3 -- I'm not sure how much the Order did know about the DA, apart from the incidents you mentioned. They knew that the DA was meeting, but not what went on at the meetings. When half of the class proved able to do a shield charm, I imagine Snape could connect the dots, but I don't know that Snape would have known, going in to the class, that they would know how to do the spell. Remember, Snape never gives Harry credit for his abilities -- he would not have assumed that Harry could have taught the group much of anything.

23biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 9:57am

#22 You make a good point about Snape underestimating Harry, but I think the "surprising" number of students who got an "E" in D.A.D.A. (especially after Umbridge!) should have been a clue. And Mundungus did overhear the meeting, he knew what the intention behind it was. I guess though I can buy it (barely) when I take into account Snape's feelings regarding Harry.

24pollysmith
maj 20, 2008, 10:00am

i'm sure the Order had other things to discuss then what the "Children" were up too. I do think Lupin and sirius knew since they gave Harry those defense books for christmas

I agree with FD....I don't think Snape would ever have credited Harry with talent, ability or intelligence....his unrequited love for Lily not withstanding. If Harry had prehaps been a girl with red hair and green eyes like Lily's the story for Snape might have been different.

I also love the line "There's no need to call me sir, professor"

I knew it had to be Snape with the comment about the Bezoar

25biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 10:05am

I'm sure there were additional things that the Order talked about, but I don't know what they could have that was much more important than Harry. Even if they didn't all know about the "Chosen One" prophecy, they knew he was important. And yes, Sirius and Lupin (and my guess DD) at least knew what was going on. Obviously Sirius and Lupin won't tell Snape about it. As I said, I'm willing to concede that Snape's dislike of Harry could have kept him from realizing that he taught well. (Snape at least knew that Harry could do a Shield charm, as that's how Harry gets into his head during Occlumency.)

26biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 11:00am

Okay, I'm going to post my Chapter 10 notes so I can get the incriminating paper off my desk!

1. Cheese Cauldron. Now I want fondue.

2. DD's lack of humility has always intrigued me -- is this his greatest flaw or his greatest strength?

3. DD says he hopes what he is about to show him will help Harry survive. Do you think his meaning is that he hpes it's the Scarcrux that will help him survive? By now he knows Harry will have to die, or at least he's pretty darn sure. I don't think I'm saying this right. Does anyone know what I'm saying?

4. Poor Merope.

5. Other than some noticeable section, I think this book as a whole is better edited than GoF or OotP. There seems to be less superfluous information. What do you all think?

27littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 11:11am

bib, I agree that this book, they woke up the editor. Not as much useless filler like the previous two books. And while I agree that since it's written for younger people they are more likely to be fooled by the mystery here, it's just that I do think it's less effective than her previous books. I didn't figure out Chamber of Secrets, but I got this one on my first idle thought. Still, the mystery of HBP isn't the main crux of the book, the horcrux backstory is.

Anyone think it's interesting/weird how there so much backstory packed into the last two books? Usually, they try to get it out of the way and leave the climax to be only action. I was really glad that she did that tho because it made DH so much more interesting. I loved learning all that stuff about Voldy here and DD in DH.

28biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 11:59am

I've thought about that too. I think many of my favorite series are ones where you don't get back story/origin story until later. I like when you think you know a character and then get more history and find out you really don't know anything about them at all. I felt that to some extent with Voldemort and even more so with DD.

The other thing I love that she does is let us see how similar Voldemort's background is to Harry's in a very clear way. It goes back to the main theme of the entire series that Love truly does have an amazing effect on our lives.

29pollysmith
maj 20, 2008, 12:11pm

ditto, me on the last two posts

I also felt very very sorry for merope. Its too bad that once on her own she couldn't gather up enough inner strengh to survive for her baby. maybe tom Riddle would have been different

30biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 12:20pm

I agree, I think I might feel even more sorry for her for not having the strength to get through being left than for having had to deal with her dad and brother. It would have taken a certain amount of courage and strength to leave them and it truly is sad to me that she couldn't maintain that strength without a man.

31ellevee
maj 20, 2008, 12:22pm

1. I just always imagine Snape going off by himself and muttering, "Dear GOD, CHEESE now?"

2. It's his biggest flaw, in my humble opinion. It makes me love him more, but it's dangerous and unwise, and leads to his downfall.

3. Well, DD couldn't tell Harry, "OK, this information will get you far enough to stop Voldemort, but you'll die horribly, so you might not want the long-term gym membership." By this book, I was suspicious of DD.

4. I didn't feel bad for Merope. I did up until she gave up and lost interest in her kid. I do get the pain factor, but seriously; she managed to screw up her kid before he was even born!

5. I worked in publishing at the time of the last book, and reportedly the editorial staff got reamed for how long OOTP was, and were told they needed to be more frugal with the last two books.

32littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 12:30pm

Not feel sorry for Merope? She was horribly abused in her family of origin. How could you expect her to be a good mom? She died in childbirth!!!!!

I'm impressed she managed to get out of there, even if only for a while.

33biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 12:49pm

Hear! Hear! Lg!

I do see your point to some extent though ellevee. It's hard to imagine giving up with a baby on the way, the way she did. But I can think someone made a bad choice and still feel sorry for them. Heck, I've made tons of bad choices and I feel sorry for me all the time! ;)

34pollysmith
Redigerat: maj 20, 2008, 1:33pm

LOL bib me too!

okay We all know that merope was abused and misused buy what about Morfin? What the heck was his problem? He couldn't have been retarded or unable to care for himself cause he did come home after azkaban. was he just so full of himself and his slytherin blood that he was....cocky?

35littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 2:33pm

I do think there's something more to Voldy's difference from Harry other than "love." Harry didn't consciously know love, either, until he went to Hogwarts. Voldy's parents and grandparents were all creepy/inbred. There must have been some bad blood in there as well. Nature/nurture, it's not one, it's both.

Also, "it's our choices that shape us" is a recurring theme. Tom Riddle could have accepted love from others, at least at Hogwarts if not before, but he chose not to. He's just bad through & through.

36biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 2:41pm

I think that Morfin was Marvolo's pride and joy (not that I think he experienced actual joy, but you know what I mean). I would wager that in addition to being prejudiced against non-purebloods, Marvolo was also misogynistic (sp?) enough to have been extremely disappointed to have a daughter. I also think both Morfin and Merope were home-schooled but in addition to magic, Marvolo taught Morfin hate. There's more I want to say on this subject, but the phone keeps ringing everytime I try to form a coherent thought!

37littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 2:48pm

Also, he thought Merope was a squib. I'm not sure if she really is a squib or if she's just so terrorized that her spells don't work well. (Like Ariana....)

38biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 2:52pm

#35 Interesting. As you were posting I was posting #36 and considered putting something in about the prejudice being somewhat genetic after such a long period of hate in the family. So I do agree with you about the bad blood. I also realized that my post made it sound like I thought Love was the only main theme. Originally I had intended to put "Love and the choices we make" but I thought that it was implied through past posts I had made. Woops! So to clarify, I do not think love is the only difference, however, even if he cannot consciously recall it, Harry did experience love, love so great that a life was given to save his. Voldy never experienced love at all, so I do think this is a component.

I also agree that Voldy was bad through and through. I think though, that he did accept love in the only way he could understand it, as adoration. Unfortunately this is love for selfish means and therefore not true love at all.

Grrr....I feel like I'm rambling again. Why do I try to contribute to in-depth conversations when I'm at work. I must remember this is where the Wrackspurts are!

39biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 2:55pm

#37 DD specifically says that she was a witch. I assume since she was able to enchant Tom Sr. that once her family was away she was able to access her magical abilities better. So I think its the terrorized thing. Good point!

40pollysmith
maj 20, 2008, 3:20pm

Yes Merope was a witch but I'm sure Marvolo taught her little of how to use her magic. I'm just shocked that he allowed her to wear the locket

41littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 3:22pm

totally trivial aside: how are people pronouncing "Merope?" For me: muh-ROPE (like rope, long o, silent e)

(this should be fun)

42pollysmith
maj 20, 2008, 3:26pm

hmmm... I have been thinking of three syllables MER-RO-PEE accent in the middle

43biblioholic29
Redigerat: maj 20, 2008, 3:33pm

#40: I've always been surprised by that as well. I suppose maybe it was a bit girly?

#41 I pronouce it the same way as you lg.

ETA: You know what would be fun is to have a thread where we discussed how we pronounce some of the different HP words. There are some that I pronounce differently than the movie and/or Jim Dale. I'd be interested to hear how others pronounce them. What do you think?

44pollysmith
maj 20, 2008, 3:33pm

look merope up online! There are some interesting things to read but I won't post the pronunciation and ruin the fun

45littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 3:50pm

polly, do you mean on google, or the lexicon or what? "Online" is a big place.

46littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 3:50pm

bib, we did yammer on about pronunciation once....I thought you said you read all the threads!

47pollysmith
maj 20, 2008, 3:51pm

well I used 'yahoo search' the lexicon offers nothing on her that we don't already know

48littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 3:55pm

Should have figured, given it's JKR, that she was some tragic figure from the Greeks.

I'll just keep my stupid internal pronunciation until the movie comes out. ;-)

49biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 3:59pm

#46 I knew we had occasionally lapsed into it, but didn't think we had had a specific thread for it. I did a quick search and didn't come up with one (just now). The only real HP related one I saw was the Dobby conversation in Kerian and LG's Adventure.

50littlegeek
maj 20, 2008, 4:10pm

#49 Oh, you were expecting a named thread which actually stays on topic? *slaps knee, guffaws*

51biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 4:11pm

I know, what was I thinking? I'm going to blame it on lack of sleep!

52biblioholic29
maj 20, 2008, 4:16pm

Okay, I just looked up the pronunciation myself. It's quite pretty. It doesn't really seem to fit with "Morfin" (does anyone else think of Power Rangers?). I might continue to pronounce it as I was.

53Espeon200
maj 20, 2008, 4:20pm

I've always pronounced it Mare-Row-Pay.

But I'm not really the one to ask about pronunciation. Until the third book I always read Hermione as Her-Me-Own. Don't really know why.

The other ting that really sets Harry and Voldy apart is the ability to feel remorse. I don't really have much to say about that now, but I might contribute whenever we get to the end of the next book.

5406nwingert
maj 20, 2008, 10:20pm

I know that Jim Dale pronounces it Mer-ro-pee in his version. (I'm currently listening to it.)

Bib- I, too, was struck with Power Ranger symbolism whilst reading.

55biblioholic29
maj 21, 2008, 10:22am

Glad to know I'm not the only one! I haven't gotten to HBP in my listening yet. I think it's a bit odd that either he or the movie people (or both?) didn't bother to check pronunciation with JKR.

56foggidawn
maj 21, 2008, 10:27am

There are definite differences between Dale's pronunciation and the movies. For example, Bellatrix's last name -- in the movie, it's "Le-strainj" but in the audiobook it's "Le-stronj" -- a more French pronunciation. If Rowling ever comes out with the encyclopedia, I'm hoping she'll give pronunciation guidelines, listing how she pronounces certain words and names.

57biblioholic29
maj 21, 2008, 10:37am

I would love that! Jim Dale seems to give the French pronunciation whenever possible: Voldemort no "t" and Beauxbatons(which I pronounce the French way too, as it would seem it's in France). He also pronounces Bezoar differently than the movies. And then there's Accio. Dale pronounces it Ack-see-o. The movies pronounce it Ack-ee-o. I have always pronounced it Ah-chee-o.

Guess we don't need a separate thread!

58jjwilson61
maj 21, 2008, 10:38am

I always have trouble when reading out loud with the name of the Minister of Magic, Scrimgeour. I always have to say it several times before I can come up with a pronunciation that my mouth can get around. Scrimgoor, -gowr, -gerr, -geeor? How do you say it?

59biblioholic29
maj 21, 2008, 10:46am

Good one jjwilson! I always say Scrim-joor (that's the closest I can come to doing it phonetically).

60ellevee
maj 21, 2008, 10:54am

I'm still delighted that Rowling actually wrote out the pronounciation of Hermione's name in book 4 - before that I was walking around saying Her-mee-own. It was bad.

And let me explain my Merope statement a bit more thoroughly: I do think she had an awful, awful life, and I have nothing but sympathy for how she lived. BUT she did use magic to make someone fall in love with her (not that I wouldn't ponder that myself if I had the power), then essentially abandoned her only child.

My feeling is that she should have done tried to stick around for her kid. She's a sympathetic character, but also weak. And maybe I'm still cranky that her son grew up so damaged that he killed off all my favorite characters. I just think that when you have kids, they are your responsibility, not your own personal anguish (said by someone with NO kids and therefore no basis for any of this haha).

FYI: I heard that originally, 'Voldemort' was pronounced with a silent 'T', but after the movies everyone changed it. I like it better the original way.

61jjwilson61
maj 21, 2008, 11:05am

But how can you blame her for dying in childbirth?

62ellevee
maj 21, 2008, 11:13am

Oh, I don't! After losing a family member in that way, I would never be that stupid/evil. But it sounded like she gave up before that. She was homeless and hopeless, and seemed to have no interest in living at all. Even if she hadn't died in childhood, she was essentially gone. I understand she was suffering and heartbroken, but before Riddle was even born she had already lost the will to live. That's all I'm saying!

63littlegeek
maj 21, 2008, 11:32am

For that I blame Marvolo, not her.

64ellevee
maj 21, 2008, 11:35am

Oh, he was a monster. Everything is his fault. But HP is about people rising above the trials in their life and trying to do good. She didn't, and I guess that's my whole hangup with the character. That being said, she really didn't have a chance at all. I'm just being hard on poor Merope.

65pollysmith
maj 21, 2008, 12:19pm

after all think of the number of chidren in orphanages, not because their parents died but simply because they were turned over to the state by a parent unable to cope. Its a comman thing. She may have tried we don't know but heartbreak is hard to recover from and being without the skills to work in the muggle world and prehaps knowing no one she could trust in the magical world, she became homeless, then sick and simply gave up. She made it to the orphanage believing prehaps that her child would be better off. maybe she never thought she was dying and figured these people would help her and she could get better and go on. since we don't have a direct memory from Merope we can't know what she might have been thinking. poor thing

66compskibook
maj 21, 2008, 9:37pm

Even Tom Riddle thought his mother must not have been a witch since she died. He felt with magic, she shouldn't have died. Maybe there were complications during childbirth, but it seemed implied that by then she had just given up living.

It reminds me of the last (third?) Star Wars. That queen dies and the doctors even say there was nothing wrong with her. It was a broken heart? Stupid way to kill her off George Lucas! Leia would have been strong enough to keep going for her kids.

Of course, without the deaths of all these mothers, there wouldn't be very many good stories.

67foggidawn
Redigerat: jun 20, 2008, 9:29pm

*revives the thread*

Here are my belated comments!

Chapter 6

1) I'm a bit surprised at how lippy Harry gets with Narcissa. Sure, he doesn't like her, but she is an adult. Then again, respect for elders doesn't really characterize Harry's relationships with any adult in his life, even ones like DD and Hagrid.

2) Hermione's a rotten actress.

(That's all I have for that chapter -- sometimes, when I start to get more involved in the story, I find that I end up with fewer notes.)

Chapter 7

1) And here we have Harry flirting with Ginny! I love the little hints JKR drops about that relationship.

2) Why do they all think Voldy wouldn't let a 16-year-old join the Death Eaters? Weren't some of Snape's school buddies supposed to be involved back during the first war?

3)Trevor must be quite old, for a toad. I wonder how long toads live? (This seems like the sort of thing I should know, but don't.)

4) Harry contemplates Neville and the prophecy -- do we ever really get to know the reason why Voldy picked Harry instead of Neville? Maybe it's in DH and I've forgotten it.

5) Draco's attack on Harry always makes me go "Owwwwwwww. . . ."

Chapter 8

1) Petrifacus Totalus is another spell I'm not sure I understand. I guess it "freezes" all voluntary functions? I mean, Harry apparently can't make a sound -- I understand not being able to move his lips, but couldn't he moan or anything? Obviously he can still breathe.

2) Snape refers to Gryffindor as being in "negative figures" as regards to points when he docks all kinds of points from Harry. For some reason, I didn't think they could go into negatives -- once your hourglass was down to zero, you could sink no lower. More math issues? Or is Snape just making, basically, an empty threat?

3) I admit it -- when DD announces that Snape has gotten the DADA position, I get an odd little thrill.

Chapter 8

1) Lavender's flirting. I wonder how long she's been interested in Ron?

2) I love Snape's start-of-term lectures. The man has a way with words, what can I say?

3) On the other hand, I also love "There's no need to call me "sir," Professor" -- snarky comments occasionally sneak past me, too.

4) Harry asks, "Why doesn't he (Snape) use another guinea pig for a change?" He's teaching you, Harry. In his own way, he's trying to prepare you to face what he already knows is in front of you.

5) I went to college with a guy like Ernie.

6) "When you have seen as much of life as I have, you will not underestimate the power of obsessive love" -- for this moment, I rather like Slughorn. It's a very good point.

Chapter 10

1) Obviously, Snape needs to write a Potions textbook.

2) Trelawney's interpretation of the tarot cards gives me a chuckle.

3) Marvolo says the ring is etched with the Peverell "coat of arms" -- when we learn what symbol is actually etched on the ring, it makes me think that "coat of arms" is a bit of a stretch.

4) So, the whole conversation in Parseltongue between Marvolo and his kids -- could DD understand what they were saying? He doesn't ask Harry to interpret. I know DD is supposed to know a lot of languages, but I though Parseltongue couldn't be learned.

(Edited to fix typos.)