Deathly Hallows chapters 1-4 discussion

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Deathly Hallows chapters 1-4 discussion

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1foggidawn
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 8:16am

Hello, everyone, and welcome to our group discussion of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows! This week's chapters are:

1. The Dark Lord Ascending

2. In Memoriam

3. The Dursleys Departing

4. The Seven Potters

For those of you who haven't participated in one of our group discussions before, welcome! We're all very excited about this reread. Here's how it works: We discuss the book in-depth, reading four chapters a week. Every week on Monday one of us will start a new thread (like this one) where everyone can post their thoughts on the chapters. Be warned: this is a re-read for most of us, so there will be spoilers -- if this is your first time reading, you may want to finish the book before you read the discussion!

Here we go . . .

2biblioholic29
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 8:19am

I was starting one while you were starting one. :(

Anyway, like I said in mine, the William Penn quote at the beginning really had me thinking that DD was coming back. Of course, now I know that's not what it was referring to at all.

I'll be back with Chapter one notes in a bit.

3foggidawn
jun 23, 2008, 8:25am

Sorry, Bib! I thought I was early enough to avoid confusion. Guess we were both really excited about this one!

I have two pre-chapter-one notes, as well.

1) Hey! This book is dedicated to us! Seriously, the dedication sent chills down my spine.

2) I really love the William Penn quote. The fact that both quotes deal with death is certainly a hint ("Guess what, a lot of people are going to die in this book"), but the Penn quote, dealing with friendship, is very touching. (On the other hand, it did make me worry a little bit that Hermione or Ron might die.)

4compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 8:25am

Are we making this the official one? If we are, here are my notes before Chapter One:

1. I still don’t get where the US cover is. Must be the great hall at Hogwarts?

2. Love the inside cover: We now present the seventh and final installment in the epic tale of Harry Potter.

3. The title page has a drawing of Hedwig!

4. She dedicated the book to me! I stuck with Harry until the very end :)

5. I don’t really get the Aeschylus quote, but I like the end of the one from William Penn:
This is the confort of friends, that though they may be said to die, yet their friendship and society are, in the best sense, ever present, because immortal.


5Saify.
jun 23, 2008, 8:38am

my before 1st chp notes:
#1: I really liked that she dedicated this book to us.
and to you, if you have stuck with Harry until the very end.......
but it kind of made me fear that Harry was going to die.
#2: I also liked the quote by William Penn.but like compskibook,i really didnt understand the Aeschylus quote..

6compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 8:41am

I love it that we all had notes for before reading! This is only my second time reading it and I am looking forward to taking my time. When I read it before it was a big rush to keep from getting spoiled, and I couldn't put it down of course!

7biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 8:42am

4.5 I'm so glad I'm not the only one who didn't get the Aeschylus quote. I thought it was just because I'm a poetry dummy, it has to be really obvious for me to get it (this is why I like Emily Dickinson and Robert Frost so much!)

4.1 Yes, it's the great hall, everyone standing in a circle watching the battle. Remember the ceiling is enchanted, which is why everyone thought it was outside.

8biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 8:46am

I'm going to go ahead with my Chapter one notes, because I've just been given a project with a 1:30 deadline. I don't really think it will take that long, but just in case....

1. For the first time I begin to feel sorry for Lucius Malfoy.

2. What an interesting way for us to find out about the wedding! It gives the reader an instant of happiness in a dreary chapter.

3. JKR made an intereting choice in having the first death be someone we knew existed, but knew nothing about until this chapter. How doest this effect us? It's reminiscent of GoF except we know even less about Burbage than we do of Frank at the time of their deaths.

9compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 8:54am

8.2 We needed that happiness in this chapter!

My notes:

Chapter 1: The Dark Lord Ascending

1. When I first read this chapter, I pictured the figure above the table as parallel to it, not perpendicular. Having her upside down like that reminds me of the muggle family at the World Cup.

2. I almost feel sorry for the Malfoys here, especially Draco.

3. I was very worried at first that the woman above the table was McGonagall!

4. What an awful ending to the chapter, setting the snake on the body!

10foggidawn
jun 23, 2008, 9:22am

Responses to some of what's been said:

#2 -- Isn't it interesting that we made such different assumptions from that quote?

#4.1 -- Yes, I think it's supposed to be the Great Hall, but that's not how I pictured it, either. Then again, Grandpre's illustrations have that lovely stylized quality, so I can buy it. It did provoke a lot of speculation, didn't it?

#4.5 (and others) -- I think that part of the problem with the Aeschylus quote is that it's (a) part of a larger work most of us -- including me -- are unfamiliar with, (b) in translation from its original language, and (c) really, really old. I'm still not sure I "get it." Something about death and victory. I figure that's good enough -- on with the book! ;-)

#8.1 -- Yes, the Malfoys are in over their heads, and everybody knows it.

#9.3 -- I had the same fear! I expected it to be someone we knew.

11foggidawn
jun 23, 2008, 9:30am

Chapter 1 notes:

1) The white peacock: One of my predictions for this book was that a white phoenix would come to help Harry. I thought maybe the white peacock wasn't really a peacock, but was some sort of spy for the "good guys." Unfortunately for my predictions, sometimes a white peacock is just a white peacock.

2) I'm interested to hear who you guys thought the body hanging over the table was. Like Compski, I was afraid it was McGonagall.

3) Voldy surprised me here: he admits that he has made errors in regards to Harry. That seemed out of character for him, admitting weakness.

4) I knew things looked bad for Lupin and Tonks when their marriage was announced so early in the book. I also felt a little bit cheated to have missed it!

12pollysmith
jun 23, 2008, 9:30am

as did I

I can't help but cry and even skip over the part where hedwig dies and I can't help thinking, why oh why didn't harry send her ahead! I think she would have made it if she'd been flying to the Burrow a day ahead of time!

Also when harry wakes up alone and fears that Hagrid is dead also! my heart just bursts with sadness.(Of course now its not quite so bad since we know Hagrid survives)

Feel sorry for the malfoys? never!

13compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 9:48am

11:1 LOL! Forget red herrings, JKR uses white peacocks!

11:4 Me, too. Maybe two weddings in one book would have been a bit much, though.

12 I was wondering why he didn't just send Hedwig ahead, but I think it was because Voldemort could have gotten her and used her to get to Harry.
I mentioned in the last book that JKR really likes to scare us with Hagrid's death. It is seeming more and more that being half giant isn't that bad. Hagrid is hard to kill (thank goodness).

14biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 11:02am

9.1 She's being levicorpused (levicorpus'd? levicorped?)

9.4/11.2 *Takes mind journey, back in time to just under a year ago...* Yep, I think I thought it was McG too.

12 Did he know for sure where he was going? I don't know if that was clear from what I read.

15compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 11:05am

14:9:1 That makes sense!

14:12 I guess I would have just sent her to the Burrow. Once Harry had moved, she could find him if it wasn't there.

16compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 11:09am

Are we ready for...

Chapter 2: In Memorandum

1. I guess Harry had shoes on, otherwise he would have cut his foot as well as his hand.

2. Dudley left the tea trying to be nice! To bad we don’t find out how he feels about Harry until he leaves.

3. Odd that the locket would be so far down in the trunk.

4. Do we ever find out what Dumbledore’s father did to the muggles? Maybe the “Don’t hurt them, hurt me” quote from the last book was in reference to this incident.

5. Rita Skeeter is vindictive, but it turns out a lot of her stuff is true!

17littlegeek
jun 23, 2008, 11:19am

Cover: I kept wondering if Harry is really left handed.
Aschylus: I think it's referring to those departed who help Harry in the forest, which ties in well with the Penn quote.

I remember listening to JKR read the first chapter to all those kids in the British Museum before I read it. It gave me chills then and still does now. Very, very creepy.

I felt sorry for the Malfoys, too. And Snape, for all the deaths he cannot prevent.

Ugh, the mirror again! I hate the big giant red herring that is the stupid mirror. Although, it does turn out to be cool whose eye is peeking out.

I have to run an errand. I'll be back.

18biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 11:21am

16.3 If the locket were in the trunk, I could buy it, it's small and would shift down to the bottom during the jostling on the train and while moving the trunk, however why would it be in the trunk at all as a couple of weeks ago Harry was carrying it around in his pocket as "a reminder of what it had cost him".

16.4 I think we do. Possibly later on in the Hog's Head?

16.5 She got some basic facts correct but embellishes them to the point of being unrecognizable. She's just a terrible person, almost as despisable as Umbridge!

19foggidawn
jun 23, 2008, 11:22am

Here are my chapter 2 notes:

1) Harry's trunk reminds me of the footlocker I used to take to camp. No, actually, it reminds me of Espy's camp footlocker!

2) Yanno, I never guessed that DD was gay, but my first thought about the Elphias Doge article was that Doge had a crush on DD.

3) The article about Skeeter's book goes on way too long.

20biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 11:27am

Here are my Chapter 2 notes:

1. The cuppa! I'd forgotten all about it! My eyes started tearing right then!

2. We've so often discussed the similariteis in Harry, Voldy, and Snape but there are some Harry and DD similarites, the noteriety, questions about whether he would be a "Dark Wizard", and of course overshadowing (however unintentionally) their friends.

3. "He died as he lived: working always for the greater good..." (emphasis added). The first use of the term that becomes such a big part of this story, innocuous as could be!

4. 900-pages in 4 weeks! I wonder if this was JKR's way of showing why her books took so long? Quality takes time!

5. I'm curious about how everone, Espy in particular, feels about the portrayal of the media in HP.

6. Oh how I wanted that eye to be Dumbledore...

21foggidawn
jun 23, 2008, 11:29am

#17.3 -- Yes! I was thinking about Snape (yeah, yeah, I know, I think about Snape a lot) in that first chapter -- he must have known, as soon as he saw her hanging over the table, that she was either dead or about to be -- there was nothing he could do to help her, and certainly nothing he could do and still maintain his position, which he had to do in order to help Harry succeed.

22compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 11:29am

18.4 I think you are right. I think I kind of remember what it is about.

19.2 Good point.

19.3 I agree! Rowling could have made it half the size.

23lefty33
jun 23, 2008, 11:34am

Chapter 1:

1. On first reading, I wondered whether Snape or Voldemort had cast the Killing Curse. It's written so it could be either, but I still had faith in Snape so I hoped it was Voldemort, and now of course I'm sure it was.

2. I wasn't excited to hear that Lupin and Tonks got married. Their whole relationship seemed to result in Rowling wanting everyone matched up with somebody in book 6. I love Lupin and Tonks, I just thought their relationship unnecessary and unjustified.

3. How could you not feel sorry for the Malfoys? They are in over their heads with no way out except death. And they are not so brave as Regulus as to choose death. Plus Draco only thought it was cool because he was 16. And Voldemort is just rubbing it in now.

#11.2 I thought the person was just a Muggle or something.

#11.3 Voldemort admits his mistakes in the graveyard in book 4 too. But he always follows it with "I'll win this time" to sort of cover up the mistakes.

24compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 11:36am

20.2 I forgot about the overshadowing part. Ron isn't the only one to suffer.

20.3 That greater good applies to Snape, too. He had to let V. kill the muggle studies teacher so he could keep helping others. I think it was important that he stay in good standing and become headmaster. Although the students suffered, it could have been a lot worse.

20.4 I think JKR wishes she had a Quick-Note Quill!

25compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 11:41am

23.3 I think the difference between Regulus and the Malfoys (at least the parents) is Regulus had no attachments (except his mother, eek!) and the Malfoys have each other and a son. If they were killed defying Voldemort, what would happen to the rest of the family?

26biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 11:46am

23.2: Interesting. At the time I was in love with a man 17 years older than me who kept using the same excuses for not getting "serious" that Lupin did (except for the whole werewolf thing) so I loved that they got together. It gave me hope. Plus I just wanted to see Lupin happy for once!

27biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 11:48am

24.20.3 I agree completely with you on that point. However, the point I was making was that "greater good" is a term we hear in reference to DD over and over again in this book. It ends up being much more sinister in future uses than it is here, the first time we get the term in reference to DD.

28biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 12:42pm

As it's been quiet for a bit, I'm going to post my Chapter 3 notes before heading to lunch.

1. "Harry was sure in that instant they were both wondering the same thing..." Me too! Do you think Harry would go back to try to rescue the Dursleys?

2. "We're leving soon, really soon, and then you'll be able to fly again." You'd think I'd cry less having read it and knowing everything that happens, but no, I'm crying more.

3. "I don't think you're a waste of space." Oh Diddykins!

4. So disappointed in Petunia, but Dudders kinda makes up for it!

29compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 12:50pm

28.1 I had the same note.

28.2 *pats bib on the back* This reread is going to be hard, but we are all here for each other.

My notes:

Chapter 3: The Dursleys Departing

1. I love the picture in the US version, but it kind of gave away the chapter.

2. Vernon thinks Harry is after the house! Harry’s response is great: Why would I want this house, all the happy memories?

3. “Uncle Vernon’s and Harry’s eyes met. Harry was sure in that instant they were both wondering the same thing.” Harry had just been talking about V. holding them hostage so Harry would come save them. Where they both wondering if Harry would really do it?

4. “If we’d even seen CVs…” Vernon says this. What are CVs?

5. Dudley, the voice of reason!

6. I can see why Vernon wants Kingsley. Dedalus Dingle doesn’t really inspire confidence.

7. “But coming from Dudley that’s like ‘I love you.’” Priceless!

8. I can’t believe that is the last we hear of the Dursleys. I hope there is something more in the encyclopedia. I would like to think Harry and Dudley talk occasionally as adults.

30biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 12:57pm

29.2 I agree, great response. In fact, the entire way Harry deals with the Dursley's in this chapter is great!

29.3 So what do you think? Would he? I'm not sure. Would Dudley's realization have made a difference?

29.4 CV's are similar to resumes. They're a Brit thing. Basically he wants to see their qualifications.

29.6 True. I love Dedalus though!

29.8 I agree. It seems like there's potential for some reconciliation. Dudley says "see you around" (or sim.) when he leaves and Harry says "yeah, maybe". I hope they do.

3106nwingert
jun 23, 2008, 1:03pm

The whole thing with Rita... Harry saw her at DD's funeral with a notepad, so we know that she was working on- or beginning to work on this project as soon as it happened. Talk about getting the scoop...

32littlegeek
jun 23, 2008, 1:29pm

CV is short for curriculum vitae. It is basically a resume. And it's not just a "Brit thing," I've seen the term used in the States as well.

33biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 2:11pm

No, I know, I've seen it on employment websites, however in the main Americans use the term resume and Brits use the term CV. I was just trying to simplify things.

34biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 2:13pm

#31 Good point 06wingert! She had probably already decided the slant she would be taking and was there to see if she could find anyone willing to dish!

35littlegeek
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 2:30pm

The Dursleys: I find it interesting that Harry is all sarcastic towards them until Dudley is appreciative. Yes, the Dursleys suck and all, but I dunno, there's something less than heroic about Harry's feelings about the Dursleys. Harry doesn't show any gratitude to Petunia at least for taking him in. It doesn't even occur to him to try to bridge the gap, even after some of the mysterious hints he gets about Petunia in HBP. After all, they are family. We are always being shown a Harry that is more thoughtful, forgiving and compassionate than everyone else, but when it comes to the Dursleys, as with Snape, Harry cannot see their humanity. I guess there's just too much damage.

In the end it's kind of satisfying that Dudley is the bigger man.

Also, perhaps another parallel between Harry & Dumbledore? DD seems to have had little respect for his own family of origin, at least if you ask Aberforth.

edited because i means italic.

36Saify.
jun 23, 2008, 2:27pm

i really liked dudley after his few confessions but i agree with littlegeek.....petunia and harry should have dissolved their issues........

37pollysmith
jun 23, 2008, 2:41pm

I don't blame harry for not warming up to Petunia, she of all of them could have, should have sometimes in Harry's life, shown him a little compassion, but she chose to let her jealousy overrule goodness when it came to her sisters poor parentless baby! And just suppose Harry had not had magical powers? Had been born a squib? She's still have treated him the same ,in case it all came out sometime, no i feel no compassion for petunia, Dudley is a little different, he learned what he was taught, but he was still human enough to admit the truth

38biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 2:57pm

I agree with you polly. I think asking a teenage boy, no matter what his other accomplishments, to be the one to bridge the gap between himself and his relatives who not only did nothing to help him, but went out of their way to put him down at every opportunity, is too much to expect. However, this is why I think it would be interesting to explore the question implied by JKR: If Voldy were to capture the Dursleys in an attempt to lure Harry, would he go to their rescue? Harry has often said he thought the Dursley's would be pleased if he managed to get himself killed, but has he ever wished them dead? I don't think he has. Can anyone think of a time. I'd really like to explore this idea, if anyone else is so inclined.

39pollysmith
jun 23, 2008, 3:02pm

I don't believe Harry would allow anyone to die for him, even the Dursleys, so yes, I think he probably would do whatever he could to save them

40compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 3:24pm

I agree with Polly in 39. If Voldemort had the Dursleys, Harry would try and save them. He might hesitate, but he wouldn't let them suffer and die. Now, if I was Vernon, I wouldn't be so sure he would come after them. After that moment their eyes met and they were thinking the same thing, I am surprised he didn't hug Dedalus and Hestia and jump right in the car :)

41biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 3:35pm

I must agree, which makes me wonder about Vernon. I see Vernon's thought process at that moment going in one of two ways:

a. He thought "If someone treated me the way I've treated Harry, I certainly wouldn't go back to try to save them..." Which I think might give Vernon too much credit for intraspection.

b. He thought, "That ungrateful boy would leave us to die in an instant. He probably wants us to stay so we'll die and he'll get the house outright. Well, I'm not playing into that, we'll go!" This sounds much more like him!

42littlegeek
jun 23, 2008, 3:41pm

Actually, I'm not expecting Harry to bridge the gap. That would have been too heroic, which is something that he sometimes is. I like that JKR gives Dudley his moment, and Harry the depth of being a regular human being who cannot forgive and forget everything so easily.

That being said, it never even crosses his mind that Petunia and Dudley are actually people who may have reasons for their issues. Vernon is another story, I'll grant you that. He's a waste of space!

43littlegeek
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 3:52pm

And if Voldemort had the Dursleys, Harry would save them, because they're regular people who did not side with Voldy, i.e. essentially innocent. Not because they're family. It's no different than how he saves Malfoy in the end. He's a prat and useless, but Harry can't just let him die horribly in a fire. Even coming from a family of Death Eaters, basically Draco is just a bully and a coward, not deeply evil.

44biblioholic29
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 3:48pm

#42 KIK! And quite a lot of space it is too!

I see what you mean now. Though I didn't think it at the time of reading, I suppose Harry is just as disappointing as Petunia, for though she doesn't say what's on her mind, he doesn't even do her the justice of thinking she might have been teetering on the edge of saying something nice. Personally I feel as though she bit back a "Be careful." or "Goodbye."

idn't? What is wrong with me today?!

45littlegeek
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 3:55pm

I kind of love that we don't know exactly what Petunia had to say. Maybe it was "watch out for that Severus Snape!"

I can't type today, either bib!

46foggidawn
jun 23, 2008, 3:58pm

#45 -- LOL! I love it!

47pollysmith
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 4:00pm

#45 "that awful boy!"

I wonder if Vernon ever really accepts the fact that magic exists/

48LadyN
jun 23, 2008, 4:04pm

I'm a bit behind, and reading the first four chapters right now, however I just had to post as I misread something...

chapter two, Doge's article " On the very eve of our trip, Albus's mother, Kendra, died, leaving Albus the head, and sole breadwinner, of the family."

well, I somehow put a full stop after the word "head"....

anyway, I'll be back with my thoughts in a couple of chapters time!

49compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 4:31pm

LadyN: kik!

50LadyN
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 5:44pm

#49 = silly me!

ok, so here are my thoughts on the first three chapters, as that seems to be where we're up to thus far on the discussion.

Chapter one -

I add my name to the list of those who at first thought the suspended body was McGonnagall. However, her extreme fear made my think "hmmm, maybe not, I don't see Prof M responding like that, even if she was terrified on the inside."

I'm in agreement with Voldemort (shock horror!!!!) - I do think it's more his error than Harry's triumphs that have kept Harry alive. Surely being the most powerful dark wizard ever known, he'd have come up with some more complex trickery before now to get further than he has. Just a niggle I have ;-)

About the Malfoys... (Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I know I've not done the whole re-read with you guys.)

I don't get the sudden change of heart in Ma and Pa Malfoy. I totally agree about Draco - he was always just full of bragging and boasting and bullying (OH MY!), and now faced with the reality of Voldemort, he's turned a whiter shade of pale.

However, Ma and Pa have surely always known what they were into, having been deatheaters from the get-go... Or is it the spell in Azkaban that's changed at least Lucius?

Chapter 2 -

Harry realises that he's never thought about DD being a young man before. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, but by this time hasn't he been in the Penseive to witness 70s Dumbledore in his fetching purple suit? I know that's not DD as very young, but it was considerably different version. Just being picky :-)

I love the bit about the "advance publicity for Skeeter's biography has certainly suggested there will be shocks in store..." I can imagine JKR having a chuckle to herself, knowing that all the advance publicity/speculation about DH doing exactly the same thing!

I can't help thinking that the last line of Chapter 2 "If anything was certain, it was that the bright blue eyes of Albus Dumbledore would never pierce him again" is a message for the reader. "He really is dead. Really. He's not coming back to help. He's dead."

Chapter 3 -

I have nothing to add to that which has already been said. Well done everyone.

51compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 5:24pm

50.1 A whiter shade of pale! lol. I think we did see in HBP that she was not a devoted follower of Voldemort, at least compared to her sister.

50.2 The purple suit! I hope they leave it in the movie!

50.3 Thanks!

52compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 6:05pm

The next chapter was long and felt like two chapters in tone. I am just going to do my notes for up to when they leave and I will do the rest later.

Chapter 4: The Seven Potters

1. I just feel awful that Hedwig spent these last minutes sulking and mad at Harry.

2. I like that she brought Sirius’s motorcycle back for the last book. Of course, it was pretty clever to even have it be his bike in the first book.

3. Fred and George really are great comic relief, the “specky, scrawny gits forever” comment, the comments about not being able to get his hair, “We’re identical.”

4. Harry’s modesty cracks me up when the others are changing clothes.

5. When I started this chapter I only thought there would be the getting ready to leave part, not the going. I wasn’t mentally prepared for the battle and escape!

53foggidawn
jun 23, 2008, 7:22pm

Let me throw my Chapter 3 notes into the mix:

1) Harry's "All the happy memories?" zinger is a good one. And yet, in the next chapter, we do see him reminiscing just a little bit.

2) Dedalus reminded me of Dobby just a bit as he entered -- short, squeaky voiced, and honored to be of help to Harry Potter. It made me wonder if there was a bit of house-elf in his ancestry . . . but somehow, the concept of a house-elf/human cross is more disturbing than a giant/human cross (Hagrid) or a goblin/human cross (Flitwick).

3) Where did the Dursleys go? I'm curious as to how and where the Order will hide them -- just in a muggle neighborhood in a different town? Does Harry know where they are going?

54biblioholic29
Redigerat: jun 23, 2008, 7:27pm

#50 I don't know that the change in the Malfoy's attitudes has more to do with falling out of Voldy's favor than any change in the way they think. They're being terrorized by Voldemort and forced into everything from Draco's attempt to kill DD, to giving up their home as headquarters, to giving Voldy Lucius' wand (and having it destroyed soon after). As we continue they seem to essentially be prisoners in their own home, no longer trusted to do the work that had made Lucius a favorite of Voldy's originally.

53.3 Good question! I bet Harry could have known if he wanted to, but probably wasn't fussed.

55biblioholic29
jun 23, 2008, 7:33pm

I'm going to go ahead and post my Chapter 4 notes, so I don't have to carry my notes to work again tomorrow!

1. I LOVE that it's Hagrid on the motorcycle that brings Harry to Privet Drive, and Hagrid on the motorcycle that takes him away again.

2. So is removing the Disillusionment Charm not doing magic?

3. Harry's reaction to the plan is so endearing.

4. Harry and Ron have been in the same dorm room for 6 years, are we seriously supposed to believe that Ron has never before seen Harry's chest?

5. Hedwig. :`(

6. I quite liked the expelliarmus charm being what gives Harry away. It is his "signature move".

7. Poor jjwilson! If you're reading along, this was a horrible stopping place for someone who hasn't read it before! I think I probably would have had to keep going if I hadn't already read it!

56littlegeek
jun 23, 2008, 7:51pm

Chapter 4 makes me really sad and mad now, because the Weasley twins are in fine form (Fred!) and because of Hedwig. I mean there are some things for which I will never forgive JKR.

Someone should really go through all 7 books and catalogue all the times that the reader is lead to believe Hagrid is dead. There's at least half a dozen in DH alone.

57jjwilson61
jun 23, 2008, 7:57pm

Don't worry. I picked up the book at the library on Thursday and finished it in two days. I just couldn't put it down. I need to reread the first four chapters though to have much to say on this thread.

58foggidawn
jun 23, 2008, 8:22pm

Chapter 4 notes:

1) Harry's thoughts on his childhood self: "Like remembering a younger brother whom he had lost" -- I think this is a wonderful, bittersweet way to think of childhood memories. I sometimes feel the same way.

2) "The Trace" -- now they give us a name for it. It seems like we should have gotten a better explanation of this before now. In fact, I wouldn't mind a better explanation of it now.

3) Thicknesse -- how on earth do you pronounce that? I think when I was reading aloud, I went with "thick NEES" but I can think of at least three other ways it could go.

4) So, the information Snape gave Voldy was actually the correct information? I have to admit, I'm a bit confused -- why did he have to pass that along? (I'm pretty sure this gets cleared up later in the book, but it's gone all fuzzy in my head.)

5) I was also forgetting why they had to bring Mundungus along, but then as I typed this, I remembered. Still, I'm not sure he had to come, in any event. Weren't there any willing Order members who could have come along on such a sensitive operation?

6) "We're identical!" -- they must have been waiting all day to have the chance to use that line.

7) I love Harry's reaction to Fleur's soppy look. It must be weird, to see other people's emotions flitting across your own face.

8) Hedwig. Like so many of the deaths in the series, a total shock. A pointless, total shock.

59compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 9:08pm

54.50 You are right. Maybe the Malfoys would be just as evil and awful as always if the mission at the Ministry had gone better for Voldemort. Then Lucius would be in favor.

55.1 I was kind of trying to say that, but you put it much more eloquently.

55.2 Good point! I guess JKR's Trace is only at her convenience :)

55.4 Maybe he was just waiting for an audience for this quip. He is the younger brother of Fred and George.

58.3 I just pronounced it thickness as in the thickness of Goyle's neck (or is it Crabbe's?)

60compskibook
jun 23, 2008, 9:11pm

Here are the rest of my Chapter 4 notes:

6. I still can’t believe what she did to Hedwig. It was unnecessary. Yes, she may have given Harry away while he was in hiding, but it wasn’t like Crookshanks and Pig had to be killed off.

7. The brick wall coming out of the back of the motorbike is kind of cartoony.

8. It is kind of odd that they decide he is the real Harry because he uses the Expelliarmus spell. It is a sanctioned spell that everyone knows. It was the first thing the DA practiced. Also, Harry used lots of other spells before that.

9. I still can’t believe that Stan Shunpike became a deatheater. Maybe he is under the imperious curse.

10. Pretty cool (and lucky) that Harry’s wand worked on its own to zap Voldemort.

11. “Accio Hagrid!” I think you would have to be an extremely powerful wizard for that to work. If accio worked on people, Voldemort could have just called Harry and then killed him.

12. Harry sees Hagrid spread eagle on the ground, crashes, and the chapter ends. It is just plain cruelty for Rowling to name the next chapter “Fallen Warrior!”

61littlegeek
jun 23, 2008, 9:11pm

I think JKR pronounced it thick-NESS.

62lefty33
jun 23, 2008, 10:46pm

1. I thought killing Hedwig was something more like letting go of things Harry was previously connected to than a need to kill her. Kind of like no more Dursleys, no more Hedwig. A death of childhood as much as the death of an owl. Not an excuse, just a thought.

60.12 it was horribly cruel to end the chapter with Hagrid crashed and the next page's chapter heading huge "Fallen Warrior." I do hope no one was able to put the book down at that point!

59.55.4 I agree. Ron wanted an audience for this line.

60.10 Does this wand thing get explained later? I forget. I can just be patient.

2. I also love "We're identical!" It's just priceless. And Harry's reaction to the 7 Harrys plan is so definitely Harry. I love that he reacted this way. And his reaction to everyone else's immodesty in his body is great too -- very Harry.

3. I like that Fleur's expression towards Bill makes her look not-Harry just like later Luna can tell "Barny" is Harry because of his expression. It says a lot about individuals and the ability of some to be observant.

60.11 That would have made for an unsatisfying book 7, aye?

55.1 YES!

sorry nothing is in order. I thought about reorganizing, but then I decided to catch up on a different thread instead.

63LadyN
jun 24, 2008, 8:23am

Re the whole Hedwig debacle.

I was gutted, but I think she had to die.

If she'd been around there would have been too many opportunities to use her, and had she not been used we'd all have been saying "but he could have sent Hedwig...!". For this book, Harry needs to be as isolated as he can be from all that has previously been of comfort to him. Sad but true I think.

64foggidawn
jun 24, 2008, 8:27am

#63 -- I think that's the best point yet, LadyN. The argument in favor of Hedwig's death that I was hearing a lot shortly after the book came out was similar to the one in post #62 -- Harry had to leave his childhood behind. I never bought it. But I can buy that Hedwig's death was necessary to the plot.

65biblioholic29
jun 24, 2008, 8:35am

57: That's a relief! When I realized that was the stopping point this week I felt terrible! I was also consoring myself somewhat to avoid too much spoilage, so selfishly, I'm glad I don't have to worry about that anymore!

58.3: I always said Thickness.

58.4: It does indeed get cleared up later. Though I don't remember the exact reason.

58.5: I'm trying to think of another Order member who could do it, because I don't see JKR introducing someone new for this...well, I'm sure Ginny would have done it in a heartbeat if anyone would have let her and Charlies not around....I really can't think of anyone!

59.55.1: Thanks, I feel like I'm usually the one saying that to other people!

59.55.2: That &$@# Trace seriously bugs me. I've complained about it before. I think there's a slightly more detailed explanation coming up and I'm looking forward to it!

59.55.4: But the only people who heard the tattoo comment were Harry and Hermione. I just think it's dumb and not funny. Just me though!

60.6: I agree with lefty, it was about leaving childhood behind. Somewhere around here there's a thread with a link to an interview she did about it. After I post this I'll scrounge up my resurrection stone and see if I can find it!

60.8: See, I think it's genius! It gets explained in the next chapter, but it is Harry's signature move really. Just think back to OotP when he was about to teach it to the D.A. (the first spell he taught btw). Zacharias Smith sneers and says something about expelliarmus being no good against Voldemort and Harry says he'd used it against him and it had saved his life. I doubt Voldy is likely to have forgotten that either.

60.9: To me it's pretty clear Stan was imperioused. His eyes are described as blank. I thought that was pretty much how you could tell.

62.60.10: Yes, it very definitely does get explained later, although I think we have to wait until Harry's conversation with DD.

66biblioholic29
Redigerat: jun 24, 2008, 11:48am

I actually like LadyN's explanation a bit better, but for those interested, here's what JKR had to say:

Twinkletoes: Why did you feel that hedwigs death was necessary

J.K. Rowling: The loss of Hedwig represented a loss of innocence and security. She has been almost like a cuddly toy to Harry at times. Voldemort killing her marked the end of childhood. I'm sorry... I know that death upset a LOT of people!

And here's the link for anyone who wants to see it in context, it's pretty far down!

Oh and while I was googling to see if I could find JKR saying anything else, I found this. It's sad but I think you'll all like it.

ETA: For some reason the first link took me to a bad page, all I had to do though was delete the stuff after .html and hit go and it was fine.

67Mandy2
Redigerat: jun 24, 2008, 9:50am

OK finished the first 4 chapters last night.
I didn't have the book this weekend and when I got home I just couldn't put Twilight down...

anyway.

I love "we're identical" I LOLed to that...good times!!

ETA: I also love how even as Harry they pretend to be the other one "I'm not Fred, I'm George", classic

I have never cried at Hedwigs death, I yelled my first time reading when Harry blew up the sidecar "Harry James Potter!! what if she was faking!!!" but I think it was something he needed to do as closure for himself and to assure us that she was infact dead and therefore so is his childhood.

I forget why the other wand wouldn't work too, but I remember that it gets explained later on.

65.59.55.2 I was thinking the same thing when I was reading.

65.60.8 I got it more this time reading through that it would be a dead give away. I think because even if other people were using it that night, it is the timing of his using it.

68Mandy2
jun 24, 2008, 9:49am

I found it so hard to stop reading at the end of chapter 4 last night. I turned on the TV to try and distract myself from continuing on. That didn't work so in the end I went to bed and read Twilight until I feel asleep.

Now my problem is that I want to be reading both books right now, but seeing as how I'm at work I have to suffer :(

It's not easy being me ;)

69biblioholic29
jun 24, 2008, 10:10am

Hi Mands! Glad you got to read the chapters! By the timing of his using it, do you mean that he didn't use it until he recognized Stan and didn't want to hurt him any more than was necessary?

#68: That's why I like that we only do four chapters at a time. I made myself put it down, all the while reminding myself that I had other books I was enjoying just as much and that I would get to read more DH in a week. :)

70Mandy2
jun 24, 2008, 10:19am

69: wow, I completely forgot to finish my thought there. But yest bib that is what i mean.

71jjwilson61
jun 24, 2008, 11:30am

The reason Harry's wand seems to act on its own is explained near the end of the book and really has nothing to do with the wand itself but something inside Harry.

72jjwilson61
jun 24, 2008, 11:34am

And if Hedwig had to be disposed of to isolate Harry later in the book, then what about Ron's owl? In fact, the way they left the wedding party it would have been easy to explain why Hedwig was left behind just as no explanation was given or required as to why Pigwidgeon(?) was left behind.

73biblioholic29
jun 24, 2008, 11:52am

#72: Good point! I guess that brings us back to JKR's reason stated in #66, that it marked the end of childhood innocence. (Because apparently seeing his parents, Cedric, Sirius, and Dumbledore all die right in front of him didn't do it!)

74compskibook
jun 24, 2008, 1:07pm

66: This makes sense to me, but I didn't think Voldemort was around yet when Hedwig died.

75biblioholic29
jun 24, 2008, 2:11pm

74: I'm pretty sure at the time she was hit they were all pretty much still in a big chaotic bunch. Granted, Harry hadn't yet seen Voldy but I guess a wild shot could have hit her. Or JKR could have meant one of his Death Eaters, who wouldn't have been up there if Voldy hadn't made them, making Voldy her killer in a way. Or she simply could have been concentrating more on explaining about Hedwig and just said Voldemort to simplify things.

76LadyN
jun 24, 2008, 3:01pm

#72 - hmmmm.... that's a good point. I still think she had to go though. Harry without Hedwig or DD cuts quite a vulnerable figure, which makes good stuff for the book. (Sorry, I'm all out of porper words!)

77lefty33
jun 24, 2008, 3:28pm

Yes, vulnerable Harry makes for a more intense story.

About Stan and Expelliarmus, I also think it was the timing that made it obvious it was Harry. He was using stunning spells on the Death Eaters, but not Stan. And I thought it was explained that Stan was imperiused too. Stan a Death Eater? I can't see Voldy accepting him!

78biblioholic29
jun 24, 2008, 3:38pm

I just have to say it's so exciting to have so many people participating! It makes me so happy every time I open this thread!

79LadyN
jun 25, 2008, 8:49am

I'm glad to be taking part on this one! I know how much I missed out on on the previous re-reads...

80Mandy2
jun 25, 2008, 10:56am

GUESS WHAT PEPPER DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She ate my DH book!!!

She ripped off the cover and the first couple pages. It looks like the book itself is still intact so I can still read with you all. But now my book is ruined :(

81littlegeek
jun 25, 2008, 10:58am

OMG, that is soooo wrong. Bad doggy! Bad!

(I guess you'll have to go shopping now.)

82LadyN
Redigerat: jun 25, 2008, 11:02am

Don't be too mad Mandy , she probably just wanted to join the group read!

Our dog has thus far eaten a Bible, Beowolf and my dad's clerical collar. Oh, and a panama hat.

edited to correct Beowolf.

83biblioholic29
jun 25, 2008, 11:12am

Oh Sgt. Pepper! What a naughty little girl she can be!

(Ummm....Mandy? Please keep her away from Twilight!)

84Mandy2
jun 25, 2008, 11:19am

Don't worry, Twilight is my upstairs book, she won't get that and even if she does it just means you'll get a shinny new one.

Also my bookmark for that book is a picture of my (ok fine our) nephew so she is not going near that.

85pollysmith
jun 25, 2008, 11:48am

Gosh guys, i got so engrossed I read or I should say reread the whole book in two days! so I think everything that can be said has been said so I will wait for the next chapters

86lefty33
jun 25, 2008, 9:19pm

Oh, I'm glad you said that, polly! I did too! Well, I took a little more time -- I read the whole thing over the past six days. I tried to stop, I did! But, alas! I have no self-control, apparently.

So now I'll re-re-read each set of 4 chapters as we go. It's just as well; I had forgotten loads.

Poor Mandy! I had a dog eat my Sea Star book (part of the Misty of Chincoteague series) when I was about 8. I was devastated. I think I'm still a little traumatized by the experience.

87biblioholic29
jun 26, 2008, 8:20am

See, here I am, trying to be a good girl and not rush ahead...

No really, as much as I would have loved to have read it all in one sitting (again) this way will be better, I might actually retain some! Also, I had too many other books that I was itching to get back to!

88foggidawn
jun 26, 2008, 8:33am

#87 -- That's what I'm thinking, too. I don't want to rush through this time. I love the way the discussion threads make me think about what I've read.

89lefty33
jun 26, 2008, 8:46am

I did take my time! I took almost a week! :) Really I do feel like I got a lot more out of it reading it over the week instead of overnight. Hmm, 'mazing how that is..

90Mandy2
jun 26, 2008, 9:27am

Misty of Chincoteague is a series!!!????!!!???!?!?!?!?!?!?

hint:the # of punctuation marks multiplied by a hundred is how excited i am by this information

91foggidawn
jun 26, 2008, 9:30am

#90 -- Yep! Here's a list of the titles in the series.

92Mandy2
jun 26, 2008, 9:49am

I just bought all the sequels they'll be here monday! oh Amazon a free 2 day shipping...

...my TBR pile is bigger than it has ever been in my life, I'm so excited!!

Also in regards to my stupid dog eating DH, my coworker said that I could have her copy because she got all the leather bond ones! so I don't even have to buy a new copy, YAY!

93biblioholic29
jun 26, 2008, 10:41am

Congrats Mands! (I'm pretty sure we actually have a couple of those around the house somewhere, although ordering them was probably easier than digging through the attic for them.)

94littlegeek
jun 26, 2008, 10:41am

Mandy, wow, what a nice coworker you have.

I read the whole thing while I was sick, but I'm going to read it slowly again with the group.

95lefty33
jun 26, 2008, 2:47pm

lol Mandy -- glad you are so excited for the rest of the Misty books! I can't believe you hadn't heard of them before! And nice coworker indeed! My coworkers tend to give me "oh please" looks when I'm carrying my HPs around. Some people will never understand, and I feel sorry for them.

96Mandy2
Redigerat: jun 27, 2008, 12:31pm

one of the sequels just arrived!!! stormy, misty's foal

YAY

97lefty33
jun 27, 2008, 12:58pm

Oh, happy reading, Mandy! :D

On a Deathly Hallows note, I have decided that I like Harry's reaction to the 7 Potters plan even more now, after thinking on it. It is great to remind us all of Harry's selflessness, the way he puts others' safety above his own, etc. in order to lead us up to the later chapters. Harry is a good character, really, even more so now that he's gotten a little older.

98Mandy2
jun 27, 2008, 1:40pm

97: Yea, I love also how Hermione says "I told you he'd say that" or something like that.

99biblioholic29
jun 27, 2008, 1:48pm

I agree wholeheartedly lefty! Of course we've had occasion to see Harry's selflessness before but this instance stands out to me as one of the best. (Not the best, that one's coming up!)

100foggidawn
jun 27, 2008, 2:19pm

#98 -- Yes, and Harry says something along the lines of "I don't want you guys putting your lives in danger for me," and Ron replies, "Yeah, because it would be the first time." Actually, that whole sequence is a lot of fun.

101littlegeek
jun 27, 2008, 3:07pm

I think the whole scene is very realistic. People often joke around when they are in or are about to be in a dangerous or serious situation. It relieves tension. Ask any ER doc or nurse.

102biblioholic29
jun 27, 2008, 4:29pm

#101: That's especially true if you're a Weasely!

I agree, I was really looking forward to rereading that chapter. Of course, I'd forgotten that was also the Chapter where Hedwig dies but up to that point, it's great!

103foggidawn
jun 29, 2008, 9:41am

Don't forget to read the next four chapters, everyone -- we'll be discussing them starting tomorrow!

104jjwilson61
jul 1, 2008, 12:44pm

I read the whole book through a few weeks ago but I'm trying to re-read it in concert with the group read-through but I'm falling a bit behind. So here are my notes for the first four chapters.

1. The Dark Lord Ascending

Do we ever find out who the "source we discussed" is who revealed the timing of Harry leaving the Dursley's? I would have thought DD but he's dead and no one else in the order trusts him anymore.

How can Harry believe anything that Skeeter writes after reading all the false things she says about how she and Harry are close friends among many other things that Harry knows to be false.

2. In Memoriam

I love the watch yelling "Hurry up!", although it does seem a little Alice in Wonderland.

This is the last we hear anything of the Dursleys. I don't suppose that their stay with Hestia and Dedalus was very pleasant for either group.

3. The Dursleys Departing

I can buy that dropping a spell is different than initiating a spell and might not trigger the Trace.

"Ooh, you look so much tastier than Crabbe and Goyle, Harry", Hermione.

4. The Seven Potters

So is Stan still imperiused from before he was captured and put in Azkaban? Sure the Ministry didn't want to admit that he was under the curse but they knew anyway, right? If they knew he was cursed would they put him in Azkaban without lifting the curse first? It just seems odd to me.

105biblioholic29
jul 1, 2008, 12:58pm

104.1: I remember wondering the same thing. I think we find that DD's portrait is the one who told Snape of the plan, but surely that wouldn't be the same source he and L.V. discussed, unless it was that L.V. supposed DD's portrait to be "obliged to aid the current headmaster" or whatever enchantment those portraits are under...

104.4: I don't know that Stan was imperioused before. Harry & c. seemed to think it more likely he was bragging about things he didn't know and the Ministry took the opportunity to imprison him, this seems to gel with what we know of Stan. I don't think he was imperioused until the mass break out, at which time L.V. probably thought it was quite handy having all those additional prisoners to imperius!

106foggidawn
jul 1, 2008, 1:32pm

104.1 -- As I recall, Snape had Mundungus under the Imperius Curse, in order to still have information about what was happening in the Order. Dung gave him the date, and Snape then gave Dung the Seven Potters idea. I think. (It's been a while since I read DH, and I'm trying not to read ahead in the group reread.)

I agree, Harry shouldn't believe anything Skeeter writes. But he always does -- I guess she always includes a grain of truth in her writing.

107littlegeek
jul 1, 2008, 1:39pm

#104 That's how I remember it, too, foggi.

108biblioholic29
jul 1, 2008, 1:49pm

I knew Dung fit in there somewhere, and I remembered that DD told Snape to make Dung have the Seven Potters idea, but I didn't remember the thing about the date. I'll take your word for it, as I'm trying not to read ahead either.

109foggidawn
jul 1, 2008, 2:09pm

At this point, Snape isn't yet headmaster, right? As I recall, it's not until after the complete overthrow of the Ministry that Snape gets that appointment . . . so he can't be getting instructions from DD's portrait yet.

110biblioholic29
jul 1, 2008, 2:15pm

I could swear the Seven Potters thing came from DD. It's been awhile though, you could be right!

111foggidawn
jul 1, 2008, 2:27pm

#110 -- Maybe DD gave him the idea before he died -- he would have known way in advance that moving Harry might be a problem. Guess we'll have to be on the lookout for where that's explained later in the book.

112compskibook
jul 1, 2008, 2:35pm

After they all returned to the Burrow it was mentioned that it was 'Dung's idea to use decoys. Someone suspected him to be the leak, but someone else pointed out that the Deatheaters were expecting them, but not 7. "Supposedly" if he was the leak, Voldemort would have been ready for so many.

113biblioholic29
jul 1, 2008, 4:43pm

Yes, they all think it was Dung's idea, but Snape was controlling Dung and gave him the idea, we find that out later.

114Kerian
feb 3, 2009, 1:55pm

I'm going to use a resurrection stone and apologize for the panic of a thread with many unread posts to any HEers who haven't as yet read this thread. I'm going to assume anyone who is reading this post has read the entire book as suggestion at the beginning of this thread, so if you haven't read Deathly Hallows in full, please don't read my post.

Pre-Reading Notes

1. This is my first time rereading Deathly Hallows and it's a little exciting because it's the first time that I'm reading my deluxe edition. One of the differences inside the book so far is that the cover opens to reveal the regular edition's book jacket front cover. I remember all the theories we had discussed about it pre 07/21/07. It no longer holds the fear it did before since I know what happens now. However, it's a nice familiar face of our much loved Harry conquering evil and in the process of kicking Voldie's you-know-what, so it's kind of exciting and you feel like cheering him on.

2. The other difference is the colored illustration two pages before the dedication page. Since this is a reread I know the characters in it are Snape and Yaxley outside Lucius Malfoy's home. The white peacock sitting on the fence (mentioned on page 2) seems out of place at the home of a dark wizard. "...The source of the noise proved to be nothing more than a pure-white peacock, strutting majestically along the top of the hedge." Already having read this book we know the Malfoys aren't in the best of positions in this book. Voldemort is rather angry at Lucius still and is taking advantage of their family by taking over their home. He doesn't treat anyone kindly, but he treats them much worse and with lower regards that before. Knowing full well that the Malfoy family begin to turn sides in this book, I feel the peacock on their fence being white is signifying something. Though their family feels they are honorable by being a pure family without half-bloods and because they honor the dark lord, and as a family who struts even, the better outcome is hinted at that they will turn for the better. Without putting any research into it, white is a color of innocence, purity, and goodness. Featured on the peacock of all animals is the perfect way to symbolize the Malfoy family in this book.

3. Regarding the dedication, I was touched Rowling included her readers in her dedication which was very appropriately split seven ways. Reading it the first time had made me sad that it would be "the very end" for Harry as are the words used in her dedication. Regarding the quotes now, I likewise agree with most of you about being stumped by one quote but also afraid for Hermione and Ron.

...

Whenever I spent a lot of time typing up a post I have bad luck with them accidentally getting deleted. I hope no one minds but I think I will post some of my notes in separate posts. It probably won't be that overwhelming compared to the 113 posts I am slowly reading on this thread. ;)

115Kerian
feb 3, 2009, 2:43pm

Continuing from post #114....

Chapter One Notes

1. I was expecting during my first reading of DH that Rowling wouldn't have us begin chapter one with Harry but another character. The fact that the book brings us into the world of someone else before Harry's didn't come to much surprise.

2. My first feeling about the figure revolving in the air above everyone's heads at the Malfoy's was fear that it was a character we knew well and who was a member of the Order. When it came to thinking of who that person was specifically, McGonagall was the one who was in my mind most. Logic tells me now that Rowling may not have skipped a capture like that had it been the case, though. Because of Rowling's choice of words to describe them as a "human figure" part of me had wondered if this human figure was a muggle. We know how much everyone gathered there hates muggles. Despite these thoughts it was surprising for me to learn it was the Muggle Studies professor, as much as it makes sense.

3. My thoughts during my first read was that the person who kept looking up at the revolving figure was Wormtail. He seemed to be a character I could think of who would be there and might still be nervous enough to do that. Another thought was that it was someone who didn't quite belong there with the mass of dark wizards but who was there perhaps after being captured.

4. Yaxley is trying so hard to impress Voldemort! Everyone present who is seated in that scene wants to please him, but Yaxley should have shushed. Instead he pushed to be more rewarding to Voldemort than Snape was with the information Snape had for him. Perhaps he's not the only one jealous of Snape's seat on Voldemert's right, a sign of his being Voldie's right-hand man. Snape may have proved himself by killing Dumbledore which provided trust by other Death Eaters, but he still isn't liked.

5. I love the names Rowling invents! Thicknesse! It makes me laugh. Also, I can't think of why I picture an ox every time I read the name Yaxley. It's very strange.

6. I wasn't happy learning about Lupin and Tonks getting married the way we did. It's kind of strange in the next chapter how Harry finds out after we do.

7. Rowling named the Muggle Studies professor well by giving her the first name Charity. I think the moment Snape sees her he knows that he can do nothing for her even if he wanted to. This is a new thought from my initial reading since I had hated Snape then, despite my questioning at the time of what conditions he had killed Dumbledore under at the time and all the possible reasons why he did it.

116biblioholic29
feb 3, 2009, 3:04pm

Det här meddelandet har tagits bort av dess författare.

117Kerian
feb 3, 2009, 3:31pm

Continuing from post #115...

Chapter Two Notes

1. Yey! Harry's p.o.v. at last. What a dreadful way to begin it, though. ("Harry was bleeding," (Rowling 13).) I strongly feel that Rowling did that on purpose. She wanted to keep us on edge, perhaps trying to scare those of us she could into thinking it was something worse. It also may have been a hint about the danger ahead later on in the book.

2. Why didn't Harry learn how to mend and repair wounds? I can see it's not something Hogwarts would teach in their classes, but surely he could have picked up a few easy spells from his visits to see Madame Pomfrey, or from a friend with a witch and/or wizard for (a) parent(s).

3. I like how the process of Harry cleaning his trunk is a way of looking back through the years and events that happened with different small objects to represent each.

4. Those evil book burners. I wonder if the Dursley's ever do burn Harry's textbooks or not.

5. Some of the newspaper articles go on too long. Having a past provided for Dumbledore previous to Harry meeting him was nice to read about, though.

6. "'What do you see when you look in the mirror?' 'I? I see myself holding a pair of thick, woolen socks.'" (Rowling 21). I wonder if Dumbledore's mother and/or sister was/were in the Mirror of Erised. Rowling gave socks the meaning of freedom most strongly in CoS when Dobby becomes free from receiving a sock. Socks are mentioned fairly frequently throughout the series. Given the responsibility of his siblings in his youth and then free of them after Ariana's death, Dumbledore is free of that responsibility, but not happily, and so woolen socks are a possible way of describing what he has. What he wants most, though? I think we're now proved that it was a cover story for what Dumbledore really saw.

7. Does Harry ever read Rita Skeeter's book on Dumbledore?

8. Oh, how that mirror teased me when Harry saw the flash of bright blue inside it! I was still very much hoping Dumbledore's death had been fake despite even seeing his funeral. I was more shocked and upset by his death than Sirius's.

118Kerian
feb 3, 2009, 3:54pm

#116 --> Bib??

Chapter Three Notes

1. I love how Harry doesn't fly out his bedroom door and down the stairs when his uncle calls for him. I know what it's like to be expected to jump and run to someone who treats you poorly and was quite happy about Harry going to see his uncle after deciding when he was ready to.

2. Poor Petunia doesn't get to finish her sentences much, does she? ("Don't you dare--!" (Rowling 32).)

3. I was a little surprised Vernon Dursley forgot Harry already has a house, but I guess it makes sense because he wouldn't want to spend much time thinking about Harry. Forgetting things about him would be something that would seem to be Vernon and Petunia Dursley's preference.

4. Dear Dudley! It was such a shock reading this chapter and his change of character. It was a great and unsuspecting way of the Durlseys and Harry parting.

5. I can't express how disappointed I was that so little conversation was exchanged between Harry and his Aunt Petunia. I had been hoping to learn something more from her. I can't remember exactly what I was hoping to hear, but something. Maybe even simply a more caring woman. I would love to know what thoughts were in her mind as she paused at the door looking as though she might say something more to Harry before she leaves.

119pollysmith
feb 3, 2009, 3:59pm

I like to believe that she wanted to say something, something compassionate about lily or something like that, but long habit and uncertainty of the future prevented it. I also admired Dudley immensely for that!

120mindylou182
feb 3, 2009, 4:59pm

I agree. Petunia was always in the background. Maybe we learned she secretly loved Harry or something. But alas, she stayed in the background.

121Kerian
feb 3, 2009, 5:35pm

#119 polly:
I'd like to believe so, too. I agree Dudley was quite admirable. :)

Chapter Four Notes

1. Harry doesn't necessarily have happy memories at the Dursley's aside from the day one year previous that Dumbledore had arrived there for him, but I like that as readers we can also look back on Harry's life from things such as visiting the space under the stairs.

2. Did anyone think of how angry Harry was in OotP about being left out of things as he discovers in this book that Lupin and Tonks are married yet instead of being angry he wasn't there, sounds happy as he congratulates them?

3. Harry has just met up with everyone when Moody is already shouting, "All right, we'll have time for a cozy catch-up later!" (Rowling 46) and I sadly thought, No, you won't. Poor Moody! There doesn't seem to be doubt that he's leading everyone as he has full control of everything, also being the one bringing the rest of the supplies as well.

4. It's perfect how of all the people that are there, Moody was the one to remove a flask of polyjuice potion from his cloak.

5. I thought of PS/SS as Moody told the Fred-as-Harry who he was paired with as Fred said he wasn't really Fred, but then said he was only kidding. (Does anyone remember which of the twins said this to their mother before entering Platform 9 3/4 during book one?) I was sad because this is their last chance at fooling everyone.

6. I think Harry may have given himself away as the true Harry when he shouted as Hedwig fell from the motorbike. I hate how just as we think she's safe...Hedwig spent all of her presence in DH unhappy, miserable for being caged up. I couldn't get past her dying in my first read. I cried a lot reading this book then. This time I'm able to think something new, maybe because of loosing Loofy: Harry and Hedwig didn't get to have a goodbye at all. That's something that I find absolutely horrible. My goodbye was the most horrible and cut-short thing in the world, but Harry couldn't even have that with Hedwig. I didn't cry reading her death this time around but I'm getting weepy over it now so moving on...

7. I kind of wondered if Hagrid was warned that Harry might want to turn back to protect the others as they all flew their separate directions. I read a reassuring voice as Hagrid keeps saying his task, not to worry, and that they are almost to their destination. Hagrid's such a sweet and caring character! Hary feels humiliated on the sidecar of the motorbike perhaps like the baby he was when he was on it last but it's good to see Harry on the motorbike one more time with Hagrid. It's like the curtains on books one and seven, or those "You're with me" and "I'm with you" quotes from HBP: It began that way and so it should end.

8. Of all the spells to use when Harry sees Stanley Shunpike, it had to be expelliarmus! Stan didn't know Harry for his use of that spell being a common defense for him, at least. I had been so surprised when reading that Stan, who I always defended in my mind previous the same as Harry did toward characters in the series, was with the Death Eaters. I did read another HEer's (bib's?) notes that he may have been controled versus joining them on his own and wonder the same, though I hadn't thought of it on my own.

9. I don't know why I had to be so scared Voldemort would get Harry in this chapter when obviously there is still much of the book to come. All those pages still!

10. "Accio Hagrid!" (Rowling 61) made me laugh this time around. Not because Hagrid's a half-giant but because I could see us fooling around and saying that of other HEers here as we goof off and have fun.

11. I was so sure in my first reading that that was it for Hagrid and that he was dead. I came to think that anytime the phrase "spread-eagled" (Rowling 62) was used.

122Kerian
feb 3, 2009, 6:27pm

8.1 & 9.2 (bib & compski)
I also began to feel sorry for Lucius for the first time.

11.1 (foggi)
I think I had thought that of the white peacock, too! I blame the vision of a phoenix leaving Dumbledore's grave at his funeral.

13.12 (compski)
I agree. Sending Hedwig ahead of time seems like a nice alternative but one with little hope of survival still.

19.2 (foggi)
We didn't know during our initial reading that Dumbledore was gay but I wondered the same thing as you when reading that part of the book this time around.

20.4 (bib)
Excellent thought! That sounds like it's exactly what Rowling meant for readers to think. I never thought of that. Good thinking!

23.2 (lefty)
I wish Rowling had shown us a little more of their relationship before jumping the gun and having them Lupin and Tonks married. It does seem to be too short of an amount of time to us as we've mainly seen the series from Harry's point of view, versus a character who saw more of their relationship as it developed. I do agree with #26 (bib) re 23.2 about wanting to see Lupin happy again, though.

29.8 (compski)
I hope they talk later on, too.

#37 polly
Good point! I agree with you. To me the Dursley's have already proved they would treat Harry poorly had he not been a wizard. They could have known Harry was one before Harry knew because of the 'funny business' but I'm sure it took a while for any odd things to happen. Some people will just keep treating others poorly because of who their parents are.

52.3 (compski)
That was hilarious and a very appropriate thing for the twins to say.

53.2 (foggi)
Dedalus made me think of Dobby, too. I had to reread that scene to make sure he wasn't too happy because happiness, well....The dementors are breeding very quickly, aren't they?

55.6 (bib)
I was contemplating whether it was his signature move or Stan being able to recognize Harry from a sign of shock and recognition that gave him away.

59 RE 55.4 (compski)
I agree with 62 (lefty) that Ron probably just wanted an audience to say that. He obviously would have known if Harry had a tattoo on his chest.

60.12 (compski)
That is a horrible way to end one chapter and begin another! Rowling taunts again.

#72 jjwilson
I agree it would have been much nice if Harry could have lefty Hedwig behind after the wedding. Added on to childhood innocence and leaving his childhood behind, I think I read somewhere Rowling stating that it was some way of showing us how many deaths would come later on in the book. That doesn't make me any less happy, though. Hedwig's death is very angering.

#80 & 92 Mandy
Oh, no! Pepper! I would be so upset if one of my cats did that. They only hurt paperbacks, or Tumbledore the paper eater does, I should say. I'm glad you got a new copy of DH! That was very nice of your co-worker.

#97 lefty:
I agree. Harry is very selfless.

123foggidawn
feb 3, 2009, 8:46pm

Okay, if I quote post-reference numbers here, it looks like this:
#122 RE #23.2
but basically, speaking of Lupin and Tonks' hasty wedding -- Kerian, you bring up a good point. We see so much from Harry's point of view, and that limits how much of that relationship's development we get to witness. There are clues that others who are close to them (most notably Arthur and Molly Weasley) are seeing and hearing a bit more -- but we readers get a very limited picture.

12406nwingert
maj 1, 2010, 7:31pm

I'm re-listening to Deathly Hallows and noticed a few things with chapter 4:

1. Moody says "your mother's charm does that(keeps Harry safe from Voldemort)" How did Moody know about this? I though only Harry, Dumbledore and the Dursleys knew about the protection on Privet Drive. Did Dumbledore tell Moody before he died?

2. I'm guessing that Hagrid brought the thestrals from the Hogwarts grounds, but he was riding the motorcycle.

125pollysmith
maj 2, 2010, 9:17am

I think all wizards probably knew that living there with his mother's blood kin would protect him, blood ties are very important in the wizarding world

126kgriffith
maj 2, 2010, 6:42pm

And as the charm was advanced, if ancient, defensive magic against the dark arts, I bet Moody, as an auror, would have known even if other wizards didn't.

127MellieT
maj 5, 2010, 12:20am

I figured that everyone in the order would have been told about the charm for Harry's protection, so they knew why they couldn't remove him sooner rather than later.