Deathly Hallows discussion Chapters 21-24

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Deathly Hallows discussion Chapters 21-24

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1biblioholic29
jul 28, 2008, 8:13am

This week's chapters are:

21: The Tale of the Three Brothers
22: The Deathly Hallows
23: Malfoy Manor
24: The Wandmaker

I'll be back later with my notes.

2lefty33
jul 28, 2008, 8:29am

Ch 21

1. Mmm ... Gurdyroot

2. Apparently Harry never read The Book Thief not to believe a story where Death talks.

3. I love the Tale of the Three Brothers. I like that it is so like our Muggle fairy tales -- two older, unwise siblings and one virtuous youngest sibling in a tale based on some truth turned into a morality lesson.

4. Hermione's reaction to Xeno's belief is just so Hermione.

5. Xeno's description of the true Invisibility Cloak followed by "How many cloaks have you seen like that" is perfect. By the time he asks it, you, like the trio, are saying "But Harry's is like that!"

6. "You could claim anything's real if the only basis for believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist!" Hermione must've momentarily forgotten to whom she was speaking.

7. Another wonderful demonstration of characterization when HR&H each choose a different Hallows.
Hermione: the "right" answer
Ron: the one to give him recognition
Harry: the one to give him his lost family

8. I enjoyed the trip into Luna's room. She is such a sweet girl!

3biblioholic29
jul 28, 2008, 8:36am

Many of my notes are the same or similar to Lefty's, but I'm going to post them all anyway:

1. Maybe it's because I just read The Book Thief, but Ron's line about Death running at people flapping his arms is hilarious!

2. "you could claim that anything's real if the only basis for believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist!" I love that line!

3. Luna's ceiling. 'Nuff said.

4. I do feel bad for Xeno, I'd probably do the same thing if I were him. (BTW: We haven't commented on how awesomely perfect his name is!)

5. Hermione's so great in a crisis!

406nwingert
jul 28, 2008, 8:44am

Chapter 24 is probably one of my favorites in the book. The Dobby death scene at the end of ch. 23/ beginning of ch. 24 was sad, but I loved the way JO compared his burial to DD's. That whole opening line of ch. 24, " For a minute it felt like an old nightmare..." sent chills down my spine.
In this chapter, I was able to connect with Harry through the physical labor thing. Harry dug Dobby's grave, which kept the pain in his scar at bay; whenever I'm grumpy, I go run for lift wights. I think the whole physical labor thing helps me (and others) to relax. Anyone else do something similar in these situations?

5foggidawn
jul 28, 2008, 12:14pm

My notes on chapter 21 are similar to everyone else's:

- Ron's line about Death ("Sometimes he gets bored of running at them, flapping his arms and shrieking . . .") always makes me laugh.

- Hermione, talking about wands: "Some wizards just like to boast that theirs are bigger and better than other people's" -- even I (and, though you may not believe it, I'm generally considered by my friends to be pretty clean-minded) see the dirty joke here. Moving right along . . .

- The description of Luna's ceiling is one of the more touching parts of the book, in my opinion.

- I like that Hermione got to be the quick-thinking one yet again. This is the second last-minute escape she's engineered in the last few chapters -- I think she's getting better at it! ;-)

6biblioholic29
jul 28, 2008, 1:25pm

I guess I'll give you my Chap 22 notes:

1. Here's where Hermione shows she didn't learn much since HBP when Harry was (mostly) right about what was going on.

2. I love the code names, but most of them would be pretty easy to figure out I would think, I mean, who else could Romulus be?

3. Potterwatch is one of my favorite things. It's another one of those moments, like the conversation by the river, where we get to find out what's going on in the bigger picture. (I think this could be an interesting book or short story come to think of it, what was everyone else up to during this time? Maybe a book of Potterwatch transcripts or something.)

4. If the enchantments are broken, why can't they disapparate/ They'd have to leave a lot behind, sure, but Hermione had time to jinx Harry, couldn't they have used that time to escape? Of course, this would ruin the rest of the story, so I'm glad they didn't, I'm just wondering.

706nwingert
jul 28, 2008, 1:29pm

I also loved Potterwatch. I think it's Jo's tribute to all the Harry Potter podcasts.
Luna's room was cry-worthy and again emphasized the fact that Harry needs friends.
Ron's comments about death were lol-able.

8foggidawn
jul 28, 2008, 2:29pm

My Chapter 22 notes:

- Hermione: "I'd feel so sorry for Xenophilius if--" I love how Ron finishes her sentence, giving it a completely different ending than the one she'd intended!

- Again (because this bugs me) . . . This: does not look like a "coat of arms." Not remotely. (Okay, I'm done harping on that point.)

- Now I'm a bit confused about Dumbledore's intentions. (I'm not at my best today; my brain is a bit muddled.) By leaving Hermione the book, he obviously intended for them to find out about the Hallows. However, I thought the destruction of the Horcruxes was of foremost importance. Does he explain later what he wanted them to do in regards to the Hallows? (I'm resisting the urge to skip forward every time I have a question that I think will be answered in a later chapter.)

- Hermione finally says what I've been saying Harry needed to realize all along: "Harry, this isn't a game, this isn't practice! This is the real thing . . ."

- Why has Harry's VoldyCam gone fuzzy? Again, this is probably answered later.

- Potterwatch is so cool! I love those guys! Like Bib, I thought the nicknames were a bit of a giveaway, but I think they were more of a fun gimmick than actual protection against being identified.

- Lupin says that Harry's instincts are "nearly always right" -- while I applaud the sentiments, and am glad to hear that Lupin is doing the right thing, I had to think a bit about Harry's instincts, and some of the trouble they've gotten him into. ;-)

- The "faster than Severus Snape confronted with shampoo" line always makes me laugh! It's the last funny thing for a while -- we're really heading into the thick of the action.

6.4 -- good point! I didn't even think to wonder why they didn't apparate away as soon as they knew their cover was blown.

9Always_Reading
jul 28, 2008, 3:00pm

I have to agree with you on pretty much everything there foggi.

I also agree with 06, there was a lot of Luna character developement. I loved that about the whole scene when they're in the Lovegood's house.

10biblioholic29
jul 28, 2008, 3:08pm

8.3: I think DD wanted them to know about the Hallows because of his plan for Harry's death (I open at the close) and possibly because Harry already had the cloak. Okay, while typing that I had a burst of insight as regards Harry's ancestor, Ignotus and how he chose death, just as Harry does in the end. I feel like there's more there, but my brain is all fuzzy from my cold, someone help me out!

8.5: I'm not sure if it's answered or not, I was thinking it was because Harry was so wrapped up in the Hallows.

8.7: I'd say in the last couple of years though, Harry's instincts have been getting better and better.

11Always_Reading
jul 28, 2008, 3:11pm

Stop taking the Nyquil bib! You're right about Ignotus though, he and Harry have the same death. They remove the cloak and face death head on, though Harry doesn't embrace it exactly as Ignotus is supposed to have.

12foggidawn
jul 28, 2008, 3:19pm

10.8.7 -- I had the same thought. In GoF, Harry's instincts weren't always great, but by HBP, he was pretty accurate. Lupin's comment just gave me pause to think, I suppose.

13Espeon200
jul 28, 2008, 3:20pm

I actually wrote down notes this week!

21 — The Tale of the three brothers.

i—I've read on from here so many times. I don't know why but this section really pulls me into the story. I think there wasn't enough going on before now for the books acing, but after the Hallows get added into the mix the pacing feels right.

ii—Mr. Lovegood says he has a copy of the story somewhere among the parchment he has laying around, but if he's truly a seeker wouldn't have it memorized? He also looks at Hermione sharply when she produces her copy. Do you think this was just a ploy to keep harry in the house because he would have to find the copy of the story first? Side note: Hermione does an excellent job of translating this since the copy is written in runes (or was it Gabblydigook?).

iii—Great snarky comment, Harry. "Yeah, because we all need a bit more fear in our lives."

iii—"You could claim that anything's real if the only basis for believing in it is that nobody's proved it doesn't exist." And that's the rub of things, Hermione.

iv—Luna's mural makes me both incredibly happy and incredibly sad at the same time. Her friends really do mean so much to her because everyone has always thought she was just a little weird. I'd hate to have sent my young life without great friends.

14Espeon200
jul 28, 2008, 3:21pm

22 — The Deathly Hallows

i—Actually Harry is not too far off. One of the things that truly let him get the best of Voldy was the fact hat he was master of all three of the Hallows.

ii—Hermione is maddening here with her insistence that the Hallows couldn't exist. It's magic, Hermione. And hanging with Harry these years you have to admit that you've seen plenty of things that defied explanation, prophecies for example. For a witch that is very skilled with magic, she's not very eager to accept the unknown.

15Espeon200
jul 28, 2008, 3:22pm

23 — Malfoy Manor

i—Apparently fear is an emotion that can be used to block Harry connection to Voldy. But wouldn't that make occlumency easy since most are terrified by Voldy?

ii—Draco, courageous or just scared here? Is he deliberately not identifying Harry?

iii—I think the Wormtail thing is a terrible cop-out. I always expected him to die saving Harry, but this isn't right. I wanted redemption for Wormtail, not just punishment. I think JK could have done better with this. But I guess it's like real life. People who do bad things reap the punishments they've sown, sometimes without even the chance of retribution...

iv—Dobby! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I'll be back with more after I finish the chapter and crying my eyes out over Dobby's funeral.

16Always_Reading
jul 28, 2008, 3:29pm

15:

i-I don't think fear blocks Harry's connection, it's a motivator to block the connection more than anything I think.

ii-Draco, IMO, is being very cinical. Keeping them from being tortured and killed on the spot only because he might be the one having to do it.

iii-I'd actually have to agree w/JK on this. Wormtail got what he deserved. He killed Lily and James and would've killed Harry without a second thought. He almost killed Harry, Ron and Hermione in the third book too, so he got justice in the end. It was just a little cheesy though, that the hand would rebound on itself. Though it makes perfect sense if you look at it metaphorically.

17Espeon200
jul 28, 2008, 3:44pm

Another question not from this chapter but just in general about Horcruxes. If Voldy was given the Dementor's Kiss, would he be destroyed or could he draw a piece of his soul from one of the other containers?

18foggidawn
jul 28, 2008, 3:47pm

#14.ii -- Yes, but Hermione always had trouble accepting prophecies, too. I mean, aside from the fact that she thought Trelawney was a complete fake, she also thought that Divination was a useless subject, on its own. Magic generally follows rules, just as science does -- it just has its own set of rules. When something crops up that doesn't follow the rules as Hermione knows them, she tends to scoff a bit.

19jjwilson61
jul 28, 2008, 4:37pm

10> I think I remember DD saying that he wanted Harry to know about the hallows, but not too quickly because he thought Harry would be too hot-headed and go straight for the wand and not look for the horcruxes. Or something like that.

20littlegeek
jul 28, 2008, 4:43pm

Re: Wormtail, I agree with espy that it was poorly handled. Why should it kill Wormy for hesitating to kill Harry, first of all because Voldy wants to kill Harry himself and second because of exactly what does happen: what if Wormy is the only one around holding Harry? This was sloppy.

I think Draco is just too scared to give Harry away. He's afraid to be a DE and he's afraid to stand up to them as well. He's a coward through & through.

There's a bit that doesn't make sense: when they get to Shell Cottage Bill says "the Weasley's are at Minerva's, there's a Fidelius charm, Dad is the secret keeper" WHAT? I though the whole point of secret keepers were that no one else could tell where they were. Total contradiction, practically in the same sentence!

21jugglingpaynes
jul 28, 2008, 6:06pm

#8- I Shouldn't even be here since I haven't even had a moment to reread, but foggi, the thing about the "coat of arms": I always thought that looked like the Freemasons symbol. Maybe it was just influence from the movie National Treasure. :o)

Anyway, just a comment. Sorry for the interruption. Back to your discussion. Just ignore me.

22compskibook
jul 28, 2008, 6:15pm

2.2 Lefty, Good point, great book!

2.7 I thought their choices was a good illustration of each character.

2.8 I liked seeing Luna's room, but it made me sad for her. She has had so little friendship in her life.

3.4 Bib, Yes, Luna is all he has, how could he not turn them in.

3.5 How great of her not to only make sure the Death Eaters see Harry, but to make sure they don't see Ron.

5.2 Foggi, I saw the dirty joke there, too :)

6.3 Bib, I loved Potterwatch, too. It is so good of those guys to keep everyone's spirits up during such dark times.

6.4 You are right, they should have just disapperated, but I felt that this is where they finally got going. No more endless camping!

8.2 Foggi, I also don't think that symbol looks anything like an eye, which it is sometimes described as.

8.3 At first I thought maybe because Voldemort was going after the Hallows, but he only know about the Elder Wand.

8.8 Poor Snape, being pick on and misunderstood again!

13.i Espy, I did feel the pace pick up here, but I didn't feel we were really moving until we got to Malfoy Manor.

14.ii Espy, Careful, you are starting to sound like Trelawney when she talks about Hermione.

15.ii Espy, I think Draco is pulling a Regalus here. He has realized he is on the wrong side, doesn't like it, and doesn't see a way out.

15.iii I thought the Wormtail death was kind of a letdown, too. She could have done much better.

23lefty33
jul 28, 2008, 9:43pm

Ch 22

1. Hermione really is a genius, what with hiding Ron and letting Harry be seen as they escape.

2. Perhaps Harry's greatest shortcoming: Becoming easily obsessed. The door in book 5, tailing Malfoy in book 6. And now the Hallows.

3. I was glad Lupin hadn't turned completely senseless. He seems to be a completely different person from the Lupin we met in book 3. And I'm not sure his changes are well-founded. Of course, I always thought his relationship with Tonks felt less like JKR's idea and more like a fanfic idea.

4. It was really good to have news and a reminder that others were on Harry's side!

5. Stupid Harry! Saying the name

#8 Foggi, I think bib has it right in post 10, that DD wanted the gang to know about the Hallows, but not to get sidetracked from the Horcruxes. DD himself was tempted by the Hallows, and he wanted Harry to know about them but not be sucked in and try to master death, since Harry did in fact have to die. Or something like that.

Re: Hermione has always been a bit narrow-minded. Like foggi said, she likes things to follow rules that make sense.

#17 Espy, I think so. It would probably make him down a soul piece, but I think he'd be able to come back via a Horcrux. (Of course, Dementors are on Voldy's side, so they aren't likely to kiss him anyway).

24Espeon200
jul 28, 2008, 10:31pm

Re #20 But the Fidelus Charm only prevents people from reaching the location unless the are told/taken there by the secret keeper. Bill doesn't say, "They're at 777 Wizarding Way, Wizardton," he just tells them general information. I think Bill could tell them the actual location, but they still would not be able to get there. I hope that there is at least a little bit of proof out there. I seem to remember Harry being told that The Order's headquarters were at Sirius's house, but I can't remember for sure.

25foggidawn
jul 28, 2008, 10:54pm

Notes on Chapter 23:

- Again with the albino peacocks. I was so sure they were significant!

- I find Ron trying to protect Hermione in this chapter very poignant.

- The torture episode has the potential to be a spectacular scene for Emma and Helena. It's painful to read; in a visual medium, it could be the stuff of nightmares.

- As for Pettigrew's death, I thought it fitting that the hand would betray him, but I wanted more, somehow. I do see the point made above, that it was a clumsy way of dealing with it, and I tend to agree.

- Of all the deaths in the book, Dobby's was the most unlikely. The people who were laying odds on which characters would die set Dobby's pretty high against. Poor Dobby!

26littlegeek
Redigerat: jul 29, 2008, 1:00am

#24 The first time Harry goes to 12 Grimmauld Place, he has to look at a piece of paper with it written on it by Dumbledore, which I believe happens after he has already been taken almost to the front door. DD is not there. Harry is taken there by Order members, but none of them can speak of it. Being told by Bill, "they're at Minerva's" is general information? It sounds pretty specific to me.

Are you saying that Wormtail had to take Voldy there? Not just say, "they're in Godric's Hollow?" Because that's not what I was getting in all of this Fidelius stuff at all.

In any case, it's confusing.

27biblioholic29
jul 29, 2008, 8:35am

Chapter 23:

1. Stupid white peacock/red herring.

2. I don't know why he did it, but Draco's reluctance to identify Harry was certainly helpful to a point. (That was the note, now I've read what other people have said on this and think I'm going to reserve judgement until the fire in Hogwarts.)

3. Ron trying to protect Hermione, so sweet!

4. I really thought the Wormtail thing would be bigger. (Again, I've seen what others have said. I was mostly disappointed that Wormtail's role was so small. Part of me wonders if, when writing PoA Jo had something more planned for Wormtail (what Cissy does in the forest perhaps?) and then changed her mind but knew she still had to reference the life debt so threw this in. That's how it feels to me anyway.)

5. Dobby. :`(

I have stuff about the fidelius charm in my chapter 24 notes. I'll post them in a bit.

28pollysmith
jul 29, 2008, 8:46am

This actually goes back to when they escaped the ministry to Grimmauld place but the DE hung on to Hermione? Couldn't she once having taken him there immeadiately have confunded him so he couldn't remember?

29lefty33
jul 29, 2008, 9:01am

Ch 23

1. I wonder if Harry's fear for the others' safety that helps make it easier to shut out Voldemort here. Kind of an extension of the love principle? It would seem strange that just plain fear would keep V out.

2. I agree with Compski (22) here -- Draco doesn't really want to be part of the Death Eaters after all, but can't just back out. I appreciated his reluctance to identify the trio, even if it was just to enact the oldest and noblest of Slytherin traditions -- to save his own skin.

3. Like foggi said, Hermione's torture could be really horrible to see on screen. It was pretty brutal to read. Good Hermione though, not to give anything away, saying the sword is fake.

4. Could Voldy have fashioned the hand to kill Wormtail should he ever feel mercy, or something? The first time I read this, I thought that it killed Wormtail because it didn't allow for mercy. Or perhaps there was something else on tap that was changed, and this is what we have instead. How wonderful of Harry and Ron to try to save Wormy anyway.

5. I was surprised by Dobby's death. Poor free elf.

30biblioholic29
jul 29, 2008, 9:17am

29.4: I also figured it was some sort of "safety" built in to the hand when Voldy made it, he certainly was aware of Wormtail's tendency to change sides. I still fell like it was a bit of a cop out and I wanted his role to be bigger. The way the book reads, Wormtail is as surprised as anybody when the hand loosens it's grip on Harry, I would have preferred the life debt to be returned in a more conscious way.

31foggidawn
jul 29, 2008, 9:38am

#28 -- Ah, but Voldy can break through a Confundicus Charm and other types of memory modification -- look what happened to Bertha Jorkins. Apparently he's none too gentle about it, either -- I'm betting that's what he did to the two DEs who went after HH&R in the diner earlier in this book, as well.

#29.4 -- That was my reading, as well -- that Voldy had made the hand so that if Wormtail showed mercy or pity (any of the things that Voldy sees as weakness) that it would turn on him.

#30 -- Yeah, I wanted his role to be bigger, too. It did seem like Wormtail was surprised at himself for letting go -- but more surprised when the hand turned on him.

32biblioholic29
Redigerat: jul 30, 2008, 8:27am

Okay, so I'll go ahead and finish up with my Chapter 24 notes:

1. Harry thinks it's grief that is keeping the Voldycam at bay though he knows DD would say it was love. How alike are grief and love? Can you have one without the other?

2. I find it an appropriate show of respect to bury Dobby without magic.

3. When they start putting clothes on Dobby, I lose it. Also with "Here lies Dobby, A Free Elf." *sniffle*

4. Okay, so how come Bill can tell them where the rest of the Weasley's are if he's not Secret-Keeper? (I know LG had said this, I wanted her to see that I wondered the same thing. #24: No one mentions to Harry where the Order Headquarters are until they get there and then it is the piece of paper that DD specifically wrote for Harry that allows him to see No. 12. It seems to me that Bill being able to say "They're staying at Aunt Muriel's" is contrary to the Fidelius Charm. I'm sure the ministry has a listing of the addresses of all known witches and wizards and Auntie Muriel is definitely known. If Bill can say "They're at Aunt Muriel's" what is then to stop anyone from looking up her address? Even if they then can't see the house or get into it, they have a pretty good idea of where it is and can pull what they did earlier in the book at Grimmauld Place, which, with that many people crammed into one building is bound to go badly at some point. I agree with LG, Jo contradicted herself badly.)

5. Bill and Fleur are both great in their own ways, who would have expected Fleur to be so motherly and have all the necessary healing knowledge?

6. I really enjoyed seeing Harry so authoritative, all part of the Hero's journey.

7. I think I'm going to be finding it harder and harder to stop reading now. At least next week I'll have Breaking Dawn to turn to!

33compskibook
jul 29, 2008, 1:00pm

32.7 Bib, it is getting really hard to stop reading now. I think last year I tried to do things in between chapters, but at this point I had bagged it and read straight through.

Up until he saved them and died, Dobby always bugged me. Despite this, I sobbed when he died an during the burial, even on my second read. This makes me realize how hard the rest of the book is going to be. Making breaking it up will be good.

3406nwingert
jul 29, 2008, 1:37pm

I think the thing with Draco is that, if he would have identified them, the trio's blood would have been on his hand. There's a major difference between acting like a jerk at school trying to get the trio into trouble and having their blood on his hand. I link it to our judicial system; a person can only be convicted if and only if there'e "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" that the person is guilty. If a slight hint of innocence, said person should get off (in theory).

3506nwingert
jul 29, 2008, 1:50pm

The fight in ch. 23 remind me of the Phantom of the Opera, especially when the chandelier fell.

36Espeon200
jul 29, 2008, 4:04pm

#26 But the ministry has No. 12 Grimmauld Place on the Floo network. I don't think that the fidelus charm stops people from knowing about where a person is hiding. I think a fidelus charm stop people who are not told by the secret keeper from entering the place. Of course Wormtail didn't lead Voldy to Godrics Hollow. I do think that Wormtail had to give Voldy the specific address before Voldy could get to the house. For all we know, Voldy already knew where the Potters were, but he was unable to brak the spell of the fidelus charm. I believe the Death Eaters know Number 12 Grimmauld place exists, but since they have not been told the the location by a secret keeper they are unable to truly see where it is.

In the same way, Ron, Harry, and Hermione know where the Weasleys are hiding now, but they are unable to get there. Information and the ability to use it are two different things.

I'm not going to respond to any more posts on this subject because I am getting too caught up in trying to get everyone to agree with me. I perceive the fidelus charm to work the way I set forth, and the only thing that can come of arguing my theory is hurt feelings. Please respect that this is the theory I believe even if it's not the one you do and I will do likewise.

37lefty33
jul 29, 2008, 7:17pm

I'm with Espy! I'm willing to give JKR some credit in that she did things/wrote things specifically so that the governing rules applied. So if you accept that JKR knew what she was doing, Espy's explanation is perfectly logical. You can come up with all sorts of "mistakes" if you're going under the assumption that JKR did not know what she was doing. Since it's rather apparent that she put a lot of time and thought into every aspect of these books, I say Espy has explained it properly.

Have you all turned into Hermione? Broaden your minds! ;)

38jjwilson61
jul 29, 2008, 10:23pm

Det här meddelandet har tagits bort av dess författare.

39littlegeek
jul 30, 2008, 12:26am

Well, I did was ask a few clarifying questions. I sure didn't mean to offend. I love Espy's ideas, they're always inventive and refreshing.

I wouldn't further the discussion if i didn't think the idea was intriguing.

And lefty, you called us Hermiones as if that's a bad thing. ;-) I know you think I'm too hard on JKR, but you know I love her!

40biblioholic29
jul 30, 2008, 8:27am

LG and I have similar ways of doing the rereads. We're hard on the books because we love them so dearly. None of these things truly bother me all that much, I just like to speculate. I have had my feelings bothered in the past though by people telling me that my opinions were flat out wrong in past discussions and hope that you didn't think I was saying yours were wrong Espy. If that's the way it came across, I'm sorry for that; I'm glad your opinion differs from mine, that's what makes these discussions....well....discussions. If we all agreed on everything, it would have gotten boring long ago!

:D

41pollysmith
jul 30, 2008, 8:30am

Okay! On with the discussion

42lefty33
jul 30, 2008, 2:37pm

You're all too wonderful for me to have thought any of you meant any offense. And I do hope you know I never mean any either. I love these discussions as much as anyone, and it is fun to have things to discuss, of course. I don't mind discussing alternate theories or possible problems with the books, though I'm likely to think that there is some way to explain it to make JKR right. Regardless, I enjoy rereading with you guys.

LG, to be honest, I am a bit Hermione-ish myself in several respects, so I can't consider it to be too bad a thing! I was going to use the quote "Broaden your minds; have another beer -- have two!" but then I thought I may be the only one who has seen The Man from Snowy River and no one would get it.

43Mandy2
jul 30, 2008, 9:06pm

I didn't get to read until today so I'm a not going to bore you all with my back peddling through all the posts.
soo...

I love Luna's mural
I love Hermione's escape, the first time through I was thinking to myself "they have to see Harry so xeno is safish"
I love that after they are safe Hermione says something like "I told him it was a blahblah horn"
I love the radio
I love how excited Harry gets
I hate that they get captured
I love that in the cellar Luna is still well...Luna.
I love Dobby dropping the chadalier
I hate when Dobby dies and I cried and cried and am crying again
I love that the clothe Dobby and that Luna closes his eyes and says "there now he could be sleeping" or something like that.
I love love love the grave marker Harry makes.
I love that Harry finally figures out to go for Horocruxes first.
Poor Olivander
Harry really taking charge I love when he does that.

Ok that's it.

44lefty33
jul 30, 2008, 9:46pm

Especially burying him in socks -- Dobby just couldn't be Dobby without socks! But that just made his death all the more sad. :(

The conversation with Griphook and the trio (talking about goblins being beneath wizards) reminds me how much I hate that throughout human history, this type of person is made out to be better than this other person. You'd think after hundreds of years we'd have figured out that people are people, Muggle or magical, whatever race, whatever background. I suppose it's just because someone thinks they can have power and glory by stepping on others.

Sorry, I think I'm feeling like I don't believe in the human race right now. My sister works at a restaurant and she was telling me that the other day a customer came in with his son, ordered and ate over $30 worth of food, gave her a gift card and a $10 saying to keep the change, and then when my sister ran the gift card it was empty and the guy had already left. And last week a coworker (she doesn't know who) stole money out of the little black folder where the customer had put the money to pay for both the meal and tip.

Okay, no more ranting. I'll go watch Spiderman to make myself feel better.

Mandy, seeing Harry regain focus to go after Horcruxes, even while he's watching the Voldycam to see that Voldy is going after the wand at that moment, is one of the strongest parts of this book. Harry can be so driven, both a good and bad thing, as evidenced the past couple chapters!

45foggidawn
Redigerat: jul 30, 2008, 9:52pm

Here are my Chapter 24 notes:

1) It's interesting that Harry mentally compares Dobby's death to DD's -- I thought it was pretty similar to Cedric's, too. Guess DD's was more recent.

2) It's fitting that they not use magic to dig Dobby's grave.

3) I'm intrigued by an earlier comment about the connection between grief and love. I don't think you can have the type of grief that Harry was experiencing here without love.

4) The first time I read this, I started crying when Ron gave Dobby his socks. Socks!

5) I almost hate to add another tangle to the Fidelius question -- but here it is: Bill says he's Secret-Keeper for Shell Cottage. If that's so, how did they manage to apparate there? Had Dobby been there before, or did Bill somehow tell him the location earlier? Or did they only apparate near the cottage, and then Bill came out and gave them permission to enter? *sigh* It's confusing.

6) The vault is always described as belonging to Bellatrix "and her husband" -- does Rodolphus LeStrange ever do anything significant? Why even have that character -- it's obvious Bellatrix is obsessed with Voldy in every possible way -- why even bother having her be married to some boring DE type?

7) I noticed that Voldy thought that it wouldn't do for Snape to see where he was going -- not because Snape isn't one of his most trusted, but because, when it all comes down, Voldy doesn't trust anyone.

(Edited to fix typos.)

46jjwilson61
jul 31, 2008, 1:36am

45.5> Don't forget that elf magic isn't like human magic, so maybe the Fidelius charm doesn't affect Dobby.

Which reminds me, how does apparition work? It doesn't seem that the person actually has to have seen the place that they're going to since HR&H apparate to different woods all over the country that I doubt that they've been to.

47biblioholic29
jul 31, 2008, 8:25am

45.3: I'm glad you said something about that. Can you think of a kind of grief that isn't based on love. I've been trying for a couple days now and I can't. You can have disappointment without love, but true grief I think might be inextricably linked with love. And vice versa, I'm not sure if you can have love without grief either.

45.5:Okay, I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the Weasleys all went into hiding and the Fidelius Charms were put into place after they all arrived at Shell Cottage because the Death Eaters now knew that Ron was with Harry. I believe all the hiding and the Fidelius Charms were put in place while Harry was digging the grave.

48foggidawn
jul 31, 2008, 9:47am

#47.45.5 -- Okay, that makes more sense. You're right -- I was forgetting that the Weasleys didn't have reason, before that night, to go into hiding.

49lefty33
jul 31, 2008, 1:27pm

About grief and love: I don't think one does exist without the other. Which is why Harry thinks it's grief but knows DD would say it was love -- they go hand in hand. Maybe Harry was just feeling too anti-DD to admit that it was indeed love that he felt there. But then, Harry has always been loathe to admit that love was his "power the Dark Lord knows not." One of the things I love so much about these books is the role that love plays in determining characters' ability to be good guys or bad guys.

50foggidawn
aug 1, 2008, 10:43pm

Hey, everyone -- in all the furor over the new book, don't forget to read chapters 25-28 of DH for Monday!

51littlegeek
aug 2, 2008, 12:02am

why do I fear that it's going to be you & me, foggi, with the others straggling in during the week?

52lefty33
aug 2, 2008, 12:50am

No new book for me -- I'll be there with you two.

53pollysmith
aug 2, 2008, 7:48am

I'll be here as time permits.

54compskibook
aug 2, 2008, 9:00am

I already have notes on two of the chapters.

55compskibook
aug 2, 2008, 8:55pm

My UK paperback edition just came in the mail! Now I can read the last two chapters in British! :)