Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban discussion, chapters 9-15

July's Harry Potter series reread is Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban.This thread is for discussion of the following chapters:

9. Grim Defeat
10. The Marauder's Map
11. The Firebolt
12. The Patronus
13. Gryffindor Versus Ravenclaw
14. Snape's Grudge
15. The Quidditch Final

So did Snape know who Moony, Wormtail, Padfoot, and Prongs were? I keep going back and forth on this.

I love seeing the stressed out side of Hermione. I've bitten off more than I could chew more times than I care to count so reading Hermione's crazy year makes me feel very sympathetic. I sooo know (and hate) that feeling of being constantly close to tears with no end to the madness in sight! Poor girl. And her best friends not being helpful on top of that. :(

yes, I think he did, Snape knew a lot of things. Poor Hermione, just shows that ambition needs to be controlled!

I go back and forth on whether Snape knew who Moony & co. were. Right now I'm leaning toward "yes" because of his comment about Harry getting the map "directly from the manufacturers." Lupin plays dumb when Snape says that, but I can definitely see Snape remembering overheard conversations from his school days and putting together who the nicknames belonged to. I was wondering, is Snape implying that Harry got the map from Lupin? from Sirius? or from James (left to him somehow, like the invisibility cloak was)?

ETA: And I definitely know Hermione's overworked feeling -- also the feeling of having so much that you want to do, and not enough time to do all of it, and trying to do all of it anyway, and being miserable because you are so over-committed.

It would make more sense for Snape to have called Lupin if he new Lupin was one of the manufacturers. Having Lupin come take a look because it might be a piece of dark magic doesn't seem like a strong enough reason. Snape is perfectly capable of recognizing dark objects. So perhaps he did know or at least suspect. Foggi, you're right that Snape is likely to have overheard bits and pieces and put it together. He's a smart guy!

I LOVE all the character history we get in this book!

The thing about the James Potter generation is, to me they always seemed way more talented and creative as wizards than Harry, Ron & Hermione. I mean they invented the Marauder's Map! They all learned to be animagi with no help! Other than Fred & George's joke stuff, what amazing new magic or mastery of forbidden techniques did our heroes manage? Polyjuice potion, patronus charms and a few spells are the only ones I can think of, and none of them are original.

#6 -- I agree, it does seem that the Marauders are more creative than Harry's group. On the other hand, Harry's group masters some pretty advanced magic. I'll bet that, given the impetus, they could have learned to be animagi. (I almost wonder why they didn't, come to think of it -- it would certainly have been a handy disguise when they were on the run.) Hermione, in particular, was mastering some pretty advanced spells. And though the Patronus charm doesn't carry the same level of danger as the Animagus transformation, I think it's probably just a little lower in terms of difficulty to master.

I think that the main difference between the two generations is that, while Voldemort was certainly a threat during the Marauders' Hogwarts years, he wasn't as much of a presence to them. For them, Hogwarts truly was the safest place in the world, a place where Voldemort would never think of showing up, so their biggest concerns were winning at Quidditch, sneaking out of Hogwarts, and planning their monthly excursions with Lupin. They had the time to create things like the Marauders' Map, or to spend years learning how to become animagi, without having to fight some sort of battle at the end of every year. One wonders what would have happened if James Potter had been the Chosen One -- or if Albus Severus was, and Harry, Ron, and Hermione had had a perfectly normal Hogwarts career. Interesting to speculate on, innit?

#7 Yeah, but sometimes it's because you're in mortal danger that great advancements come. The Allies developed the A-bomb to stay ahead of Hitler, which lead to the cold war, which lead to the space race. We went to the moon to prove we were better than the Russians. (Boys!)

I dunno, it just always seemed like the Marauders were cooler somehow. Lily is cooler than Hermione. Hermione might be able to figure out how to make that lily that turns into a fish thing, but does she have the sensibility to do so? Hermione's too intellectual and out of touch with her feelings (Ron). While Lily was also the brightest witch of her age, she was compassionate and understanding of herself and others in ways Hermoine will never be.

Harry can play sports but he's clueless with girls and pretty crappy at school. James was brilliant, a jock and popular, and got the coolest girl in school. (James is kind of a jerk, tho.) Even Snape is a genius at potions, enough so that his schoolbook stumps them all, including Hermione. He invented a gnarly spell in Sectum Sempra. You won't see Draco doing anything like that!

Let's not even try to compare Ron & Sirirus, ok?

Foggi, good point. The trio spends a lot of time on anti-Voldemort missions.

Let's not even try to compare Ron & Sirus, ok? -- lol!! I think it comes to readers relating to main characters like Harry & co. better than characters like James and the gang. Plus we only see James & co. in snippets so we only have glimpses of their personalities. We see Harry, Ron, and Hermione all the time and get to know their weaknesses as closely as we know their strengths. In later years, Hermione will be remembered only as the brightest in the year, not also as too intellectual to relate to others. So when we hear about the Marauders, we're only ever hearing their finest moments and personality traits.

I think you're right, lefty, still, I've always wanted more of the previous generation's story. They were awesome.

Yes, I could so do with a few books on the previous generation!! That should be Rowling's next project.

#9 -- Really good point. Harry, Ron, and Hermione, with their flaws, are more relatable than the Marauders' generation. I mean, Lily Evans is a great character . . . but she's almost too perfect, if you know what I mean. Smart, talented, beautiful, feisty, with a heart of gold. I think maybe I would have hated her if she'd been the female lead. ;-)

#10/11 -- I so agree! At least a collection of Marauders short stories, please!

I think maybe I would have hated her if she'd been the female lead. -- lol, I'm sure Rowling gave her some flaws, or would have if she were lead. But as is, no wonder Petunia was always jealous of her! Who wants someone like that for a sister!?

flaws> Lily was a risk taker, showing off her powers to Petunia even tho Mummy said she mustn't
She also stood up for friendless Sev

#14 -- I don't think being a risk-taker is necessarily a flaw. Being a show-off might be, though. And I don't think standing up for Sev was a flaw, either. (And not just because it's Sev we're talking about!)

Perhaps Lily giving up on Sev was a flaw. Sure, he made it impossible to stay friends, but still. I dunno. Or maybe her falling for James was a flaw, since, hello, he wasn't exactly a paragon of virtue. I really can't blame Snape for going to the dark side when his only real friend and love interest goes out with a guy like James.

15> I agree that standing up for Sev is not really a flaw, I'm not sure what I was thinking about
then......but there was just something about Lily that makes me believe she was just a little smug about being a witch and a good one at that, now don't get mad at me but lots of teens have that attitude.

falling for James ...ahhhh..amore! Who can explain?

#17 -- Oh, I see what you mean. I do think she was a little bit smug. Hermione has a bit of the same flaw, I think.

Indeed!