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Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex,…
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Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex, Friendship, and Life Together (urspr publ 2012; utgåvan 2012)

av Mark Driscoll, Grace Driscoll

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452642,476 (3.14)Ingen/inga
Most marriage books assume the author did it right. Most marriage books barely mention friendship. Most marriage books use "intimacy" as code for "sex." This is not one of those books. In Real Marriage, Pastor Mark Driscoll and his wife, Grace, share how they have struggled and how they have found healing through the power of the only reliable source: the Bible. They believe friendship is fundamental to marriage but not easy to maintain. So they offer practical advice on how to make your spouse your best friend - and keep it that way. And they know from experience that sex-related issues need to be addressed directly. Five chapters are dedicated to answering questions like: Should I confess my pre-marital sexual sin to my spouse? Is it okay to have a "work spouse"? What does the Bible say about masturbation and oral sex? Stunningly honest and vulnerable, Real Marriage is like a personal counseling session with a couple you cannot surprise, you cannot shock into silence, who will respond to every question with wisdom, humility, and realism. If you want to have a long-lasting, fulfilling marriage you should read this book. Wrestle with this book. Pray over this book. Share this book. And discover how God can use it to change your life. Endorsements: "If you're married or plan to be someday, do yourself a favor and read every page of this book." --DRS. LES & LESLIE PARROTT Founders of RealRelationships.com and authors of Love Talk "Whether engaged, newlywed, or veteran, Real Marriage will serve as an invaluable resource. I highly recommend this book." --ANDY STANLEY author of The Grace of God and Senior Pastor, North Point Community Church "One of my greatest concerns is that culture is going to continually define and redefine what marriage is and is not, and the church is going to simply sit on the sidelines and react rather than seeking to actually become proactive by confidently teaching what the Bible has to say about it.  That is why I am so thankful that Mark and Grace Driscoll wrote this book.  Their approach to marriage, its benefits and challenges are transparent and challenging and I honestly believe that every married couple who will work through what they lead us through in this book will not just merely have a marriage that survives in this world but rather thrives in it." -- PERRY NOBLE Senior Pastor, NewSpring Church "Our thanks to Mark and Grace Driscoll who have served this generation well by tastefully but boldly addressing the real issues facing real marriages. Taking the unchanging truth of God's word and sprinkling in is the story of God's mercy in their own marriage they have filled every chapter with real helpfulness. This book is powerful, biblical, practical and healing for marriages that hurt. My wife and our adult children read it to great profit." -- DR. JAMES MACDONALD Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel and Bible teacher for Walk in the Word… (mer)
Medlem:jdreynolds42
Titel:Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex, Friendship, and Life Together
Författare:Mark Driscoll
Andra författare:Grace Driscoll
Info:Thomas Nelson (2012), Hardcover, 272 pages
Samlingar:Ditt bibliotek
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Real Marriage: The Truth About Sex, Friendship, and Life Together av Mark Driscoll (2012)

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In the Evangelical world, you would be hard-pressed to find a figure more polarizing than Mark Driscoll (except for maybe Rob Bell. Those crazy, Mars Hill Pastors!). Those of a more moderate or progressive bent, find Driscoll’s theology too narrow, judgmental and misogynistic; Many conservatives stand with Driscoll in his theological commitments, but find his bombastic style, insensitivity and general jerkiness, off-putting.

Personally, I have some fundamental disagreements with Driscoll and concerns with his approach. Chief among these is my commitment to Biblical Egalitarianism and I find some of his comments are damaging to women, based in antiquated gender stereotypes (generally post-industrial, pre-feminist stereotypes), and arrogant. And so when Thomas Nelson, was offering his book free in exchange for reviews, I opted in just to see where the man (and wife) go amiss in their discussion of marriage; however, I found that while I disagree with the Driscolls in important ways, much of what they had to say here, was thoughtful, balanced and helpful. So read on Driscoll fans, I promise not to smear his (ahem) good name, but nor will I let him off easy!

Real Marriage is divided into three parts. In Part 1, the Driscolls address what makes a good marriage, discussing the roles of both husband and wife, their mutual responsibility to one another and ways to nurture their relationship. In Part II, they turn their attention to sex/sexuality (this is the biggest section of the book). Part 3 of the book consists of a single chapter, addressing how to ‘reverse engineer your marriage’ which involves casting a vision for the type of marriage you want to end up with and making a plan to get there. Part 3, despite it’s brevity is quite good. Parts 1 and 2 are generally pretty good with some issues. As an outline for this review, I will explore the Good, the Bad & the Ugly (with apologies to Clint Eastwood). On to my fair and balanced review (Fox newsworthy):

The Good


For the most part, I liked this book and found myself liking Mark and Grace Driscoll a little more as I read. Mark and Grace shares vulnerablely about their relational and sexual past, their marital struggles and offers advice they personally found helpful in their own marriage together. I was pleasantly surprised that their section on marriage has a chapter which underscores mutuality (showing how a good marriage starts with a good friendship). They also have good things to say about the gift of sexuality and do not pull punches in addressing sinfulness (i.e. abuse, pornography, selfishness). Things are said carefully here; I doubt that Driscoll will feel the need to recant or apologize for anything written here (as he has humbly done on occasion when he’s shot his mouth off). Perhaps the addition of his wife, Grace, has made him more gracious in his presentation! The Driscolls dispense good advice about cultivating intimacy.

Also, while I hedge and differentiate my position from Driscoll, I respect his commitment to being Biblical in his approach. This is a commitment I share with the Driscolls and actually agree with them on good many things, though not without reservations and concerns.I am done talking about the good things. On to the bad!

The Bad

Beyond my fundamental disagreement with the Driscolls the thing that is done badly in this book is exegesis. Mark Driscoll has a Master’s degree in exegetical theology and should be much better at this, but he’s not (and yes I am singling out Mark on this one). This book is arranged topically and so doesn’t explore any one text in-depth. Often Driscoll proof texts and occasionally just misuses passages. In the chapter entitled, “Can We ______?” Driscoll uses Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 6:12 as a taxonomy to apply to sexual questions (p.192): “All things are lawful for me, but not all things are beneficial. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” From this, Driscoll proposes three questions: 1)Is it permissible? 2) Is it helpful? 3) Is it enslaving? (192).

I agree that this can be a useful taxonomy in assessing particular issues, but Driscoll’s employment of it fails to account for the fact that Paul, in saying “All things are lawful for me” is quoting and rhetorically dismantling a Corinthian slogan. Someone with a master’s degree in Exegetical theology, ought to take more care here. Elsewhere he handles scripture better, such as his explication of the Song of Songs, but this book is really inconsistent in regards to the Bible.

Take for instance how he handles ‘submission.’ Driscoll argues that it is the role of the husband to provide leadership to the household (and the church), it is the role of women to submit. They do balance this by addressing the limits of submission (women should not submit to abuse, or to commit a sin), but this is generally what they argue, for all cases regardless of personality, temperament and gifting of each spouse. The basis of their case comes from their reading of the Biblical household codes, particularly the one that we read of in Ephesians 5:21-33. Wives are told to submit (vs. 22) because the husbands are their head as Christ is the head of the church; Thus women submit, men lead.

But this is a skewed picture of this passage. The section on women submitting (5:22-24) is bracketed by two verses which the Driscolls quote but fail to adequately expound. 5:21 says “Submit yourself to one another.” This sets this whole passage in the context of mutual submission (not just wives to husbands). In fact the word used for submit in this passage (ὑποτασσόμενοι), is said here, but not in verse 22, when Paul tells wives to submit. This reads literally “Submit yourselves one to another, wives to your husbands…” The context is mutual submission, not just wives to husbands.

The second verse they fail to properly expound is verse 25: “Husbands love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her.” They quote this and talk about the husband’s loving leadership, but not about what it means to love like the Jesus who laid his life down. The Driscolls and I can disagree on egalitarian/complementarian concerns, but they need to trumpet the mutuality and shared submission more than they do here.

The Ugly

Finally, there is the ugly side of this book. The Driscoll’s spend a great deal of their section on sex, talking about sexual responsibility and what can couples do sexually. They give the green light to just about everything from anal sex, cyber-sex, mutual masturbation, roleplaying, etc. Pretty much their modus operandi is if the Bible doesn’t forbid it, and it doesn’t involve anyone else but husband and wife, go for it (yes, they also ask if it is helpful or enslaving). They did not, here say women or men had to perform certain sexual acts they feel uncomfortable with, but they do imply that within the context of marriage, you should be open to experimentation.

While I agree that sexuality is a gift to be celebrated within the context of marriage, and there is some freedom in how it can be expressed, I think the level of detail here is unnecessary and unhelpful. What you can do sexually in marriage is the wrong question if you ask me. I like the title of one of Marva Dawn’s books, Sexual Character: Beyond Technique to Intimacy. I think the Driscoll’s fetish with what you can or can’t do sexually emphasizes technique, sometimes at the expense of intimacy. Healthy Christian sexuality is about mutually sharing, more than about experimentation. ( )
  Jamichuk | May 22, 2017 |
I wish that I had this book available to my husband and I when we were first married. I can guarantee you that I will give it to my four children and their fiancé when they are planning their marriage.

I picked it up in order to counsel a friend who was struggling with medical issues. These made her insecure and tired and she was avoiding sex at all costs. This book confirmed scripture.

"Do not deprive on another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."
1 Corinthians 7:5 ESV

Little did I know how much valuable information I would find in the book that was applicable to me...a VERY happily married pastors wife.

WARNING: If you can't call a vagina a vagina and a penis a penis than this is definitely not the book for you! But, if you are looking for an extremely Biblical reference for those awkward sex questions and solid, Godly advice on marriage than this is the book.

The Driscoll's are uniquely positioned to write such a book...having experienced a difficult start to marriage; betrayal, sexual dysfunction and past abuse...simultaneously leading one of the most dynamic Christian ministries of our time...the Driscoll's are real and tell it to you true.

Addendum: This review was written prior to the very public revealing of ministerial mishandling, Mark Driscoll's resignation as pastor of Mars Hill Church in Seattle on October 14, 2014, and the subsequent removal of Mars Hill from the Acts29 Network. We are all sinners... I still stand by this review.

For all of my reviews visit my blog at: https://blessedandbewildered.wordpress.com ( )
  ZoeSchoppa | Aug 1, 2015 |
"The goal is progress, not perfection."

This is the most comprehensive book on marriage that I have seen; it is a combination of several books that I have read and would recommend. It is both written for pastors from a pastoral perspective as well as Christians young and old. It is helpful in developing a theology of marriage and looking at everything in marriage as something that is intended to glorify God. There are tools useful in planning and conflict resolution as well as developing friendship and intimacy. Even marital conflict can glorify God if done correctly, says Dever. It's one of the few books on marriage that also deals with working through past sexual histories and physical, emotional, and sexual abuse as a couple. The chapters related to sex and intimacy are modern--they are addressed to a generation that has grown up in a sex-soaked culture and feels no shame. The book includes plenty of statistics from within and without the church. It is not really a funny, light-hearted read. If you want that, check out the book Fun Loving You (my review).


The biographical info and testimonies of the Driscolls was helpful to me, these people are not "whitewashed tombs." One appeal of Mark Driscoll is his humility and use of others for support. He often (publicly) marches down a bad, angry road spiritually, mentally, and in regards to physical health but later listens to correction. He seeks wisdom from others ranging from biblical counseling to holistic health advice to hiring a life coach. To understand depression and addiction that he sees either in himself or his congregation, he reads books and seeks wisdom on the brain and psychology. Critics have faulted this book for he and his wife's detailing of their earlier marital struggles and dealing with her past abuse, but I find nothing off-putting about the content nor do I find it nearly as transparent and forthright as people claim.

"Men see everything as either respect or disrespect. Women see everything as either loving or unloving."

Usually, the first book I recommend on marriage is Love and Respect by Eggerichs (my review). Real Marriage includes chapters detailing the same concept, but Mark writes the chapter exhorting men to love their wives while Grace writes the chapter on women exhorting men to respect their husbands. This may be particularly appealing to women who felt brow-beaten by Eggerichs in his book.


The Driscolls contrast Martin Luther's ultimately good marriage-- a marriage rooted in and exemplifying friendship-- with John Wesley's ultimately destructive marriage. I think it illustrated the importance of marriage/family balance for busy pastors and theologians.

The chapter addressing pornography and sexual abuse is a difficult read, but necessary for the times. There is a chapter toward the beginning of the book where Mark pretty unflinchingly exhorts men to behave like men; there is not a lot of scripture just a lot of commentary on "immature" and "idiotic" behaviors common in American males that Driscoll is confronting. People may find that off-putting, but I probably agreed with everything he said.

One of the last chapters addresses sex in a shameless culture. This comes out of the Driscolls getting hundreds of questions on intimacy during premarital counseling as well as the conferences they speak at. They address every major question through the lens of: Is it lawful (1 Corinthians 6)? Is it helpful?

The final chapter seemingly borrows from Steven Covey to "begin with the end in mind." What does your last day of marriage look like? The authors lay out a list of goals to discuss with your spouse ranging from long-term like what you'll look for in churches and what types of ways you'll look to worship in your work to daily habits like what kind of books and how many meals to eat together. The specific goals and long-term planning are something I need to work on in my own marriage.

I give this book five stars, I would recommend it to any pastor doing premarital counseling, and some specific cases of marital counseling. I recommend it to all Christians as a helpful marriage text. ( )
  justindtapp | Jun 3, 2015 |
Earlier this month, Mark and Grace Driscoll released their latest book, Real Marriage – The Truth about Sex, Friendship, and Life Together. Never one to shy away from controversy, Driscoll tackles issues such as friendship within marriage, complementarianism, and what is and what is not acceptable behavior for married Christians in the bedroom. The book has been met with great fanfare and harsh criticism from those inside and outside of his theological camp, so I naturally wanted to get my hands on a copy and review it.

Real Marriage is not a very “theologically heavy” treatment of marriage and sex. This stood out to me when I began reading it, because so much of what Driscoll does is deeply rooted in theology. When you can’t count on much, you can count on Mark to go heavy on doctrine, pound in the gospel, and bring about some great applications. In this book, he spends much more time on the applications and practical steps than the theological premises behind them.

It’s best to think of this book as a conference in a cover – which seems appropriate to do when the next step for Mark and Grace was to go on a conference tour discussing the subject matter of the book. And while Mars Hill Church (Driscoll’s multi-site church based in Seattle), and thousands of other churches are presenting Real Marriage as a sermon-series / church campaign, the book reads as the authors’ personal stories, tips, and pointers for others to learn from.
Summary

The book centers on a few specific topics, such as the importance of friendship between spouses, complementarianism, and, well, sex. The Driscoll’s share their experience as a ministry couple who were deeply committed, but weren’t communicating or having a very fulfilling marriage. They were relating to one another, but weren’t having a good time. That experience helped to open their eyes to the need of a strong friendship in marriage.

Ever the outspoken one, Mark writes a chapter to men challenging them to stop being “boys who shave,” and step into their God ordained role as providers, and heads of their family. Grace, in turn, pens a chapter on the role of the wife in marriage. These chapters are perhaps the best in the entire book, and reveal a deep-seated appreciation and honor towards the Word of God and His design for the family. While this should be the most hotly debated subject-matter in the book (by those who would hold to a more egalitarian / liberal persuasion), it is overwhelmed by it’s other lightening rod issue.

Sex. The Driscoll’s are for it – within marriage to be sure, but they’re definitely for it. The chapter that has garnered the most criticism and discussion thus far has been chapter 10, appropriately titled, “Can We _____?” In this chapter, the Driscoll’s take their stab at answering questions of appropriate bedroom behavior for married Christians, using the framework of 1 Corinthians 6:12. More on this below.
Defending the Driscoll’s

This book has received much more criticism than Mark Driscoll’s other books. Tim Challies (the Canadian Godfather of Reformed book reviews) posted three articles on chapter 10 alone. But, is the criticism justified?

Too Much Sex!
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that this book was released at almost the same time as Ed Young Jr.’s Sexperiment, but one of the outcries that’s been going around the blogosphere is that modern pastors (and somehow they just lump two very different pastors like Driscoll and Young) speak too much and too frankly about sex considering the brevity and discretion of the Biblical authors. The problem with this critique is that it fails to account for Driscoll’s other works (such as Vintage Jesus, Vintage Church, Death by Love, and Doctrine) – all of which are theologically rich and robust. To argue that Driscoll only preaches on (or writes about) sex is simply unfounded.

Drinking from a Toilet?
Another popular blogger has likened reading Real Marriage to drinking water from a toilet. This criticism is, at the very least, in poor taste. (Get it? In poor taste? Nevermind.) It is my opinion that this book can be a tremendous help to pastors and laity alike. I have no doubt that God will use it in powerful ways and bring help and healing and restoration of families to readers of this book. I have my own frustrations with the book, but this criticism is unwarranted.
Frustrations with the Book

While I understand (though disagree) with the criticisms above, I do have a few of my own – primarily, the question of Mark Driscoll’s growth (or seemingly lack thereof) in the book, and the grid used in chapter 10.

The Seeming Lack of Growth of Mark Driscoll
Throughout the book, we read of Grace’s journey, including the sexual sins in her past that have haunted their marriage, the corresponding secrets that she brought into their marriage, and the times that Christ has brought healing to her past and their marriage. As a pastor who has counseled church members who have similar past sins, and brought similar secrets to their marriage, this book is an excellent tool to place in their hands.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of Mark.

His character, personality, and disposition to his wife seems extremely undeveloped. He tells stories of the day that she came home and he didn’t like her “mom” haircut, and of his growing frustration with their passionless marriage, but little seems to change in Mark. His development seems to be much more in line with Grace’s growth and the change in her disposition towards her husband.

I don’t know Mark and Grace. I have benefited greatly from his ministry and preaching. I wish this book presented more growth and development in his character. I believe that it exists, but it simply doesn’t come through in the book.

A Gospel-Less Grid
Many have undertaken the task of taking apart the grid that the Driscoll’s use to answer questions in their, “Can We _____?” chapter. 1 Corinthians 6:12 states, “All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.” From this verse, the Driscoll’s draw three questions to help determine whether an activity is appropriate for a married couple.

Is it lawful? Is it helpful? Is it enslaving?

Noticeably missing from these questions is anything having to do with the state of the heart – which is something that I enjoy about Driscoll’s preaching and writing, so it’s all the more frustrating to not see any trace of it in the most discussed chapter!

The first question should be, “Why do you want to do that?”

Only after searching for our heart-motive behind desiring a particular act, and understanding the underlying reason, should we even begin to ask questions of legality and helpfulness. This question will give us the impetus to limit certain freedoms that may be available to us. This is where Christian maturity comes into play.
Conclusion

Ultimately, this book is good, but not great. It should have been great. Driscoll’s penchant for hitting theology hard and heavy while tackling controversial issues without fear should have resulted in a book that pastors can unswervingly recommend and share with others. Unfortunately, according to the bulk of reviews that I’ve read, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

In the preface, Mark Driscoll writes, “Although we seek to be faithful to the Bible, this book is not the Bible, and, like you, we are imperfect, so there will be mistakes. Take whatever gifts you find in this book, and feel free to leave the rest.” (xi)

That would be the best advice I could give as well. Read it for yourself. You will no doubt come across material that is surprising and/or shocking. But you’ll also discover several jewels of wisdom that will serve those who desire to follow God in their marriage.
  David_Norman | Mar 8, 2013 |
The Driscolls' book does not include much that I have not read before, but it does have lots of good stuff to say and does so in a brisk, easy-to-read manner. The main thing that differentiates this book from other Christian marriage books is that the authors do a good job of openly discussing topics that other books shy away from. Part of that is Grace Driscoll's life story including sexual abuse. For many women (and men) this is an important dynamic that Christian marriage books are less willing to confront. I recommend this book to anyone looking to improve their marriage or tackle issues in their marriage. ( )
  wbc3 | May 1, 2012 |
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Most marriage books assume the author did it right. Most marriage books barely mention friendship. Most marriage books use "intimacy" as code for "sex." This is not one of those books. In Real Marriage, Pastor Mark Driscoll and his wife, Grace, share how they have struggled and how they have found healing through the power of the only reliable source: the Bible. They believe friendship is fundamental to marriage but not easy to maintain. So they offer practical advice on how to make your spouse your best friend - and keep it that way. And they know from experience that sex-related issues need to be addressed directly. Five chapters are dedicated to answering questions like: Should I confess my pre-marital sexual sin to my spouse? Is it okay to have a "work spouse"? What does the Bible say about masturbation and oral sex? Stunningly honest and vulnerable, Real Marriage is like a personal counseling session with a couple you cannot surprise, you cannot shock into silence, who will respond to every question with wisdom, humility, and realism. If you want to have a long-lasting, fulfilling marriage you should read this book. Wrestle with this book. Pray over this book. Share this book. And discover how God can use it to change your life. Endorsements: "If you're married or plan to be someday, do yourself a favor and read every page of this book." --DRS. LES & LESLIE PARROTT Founders of RealRelationships.com and authors of Love Talk "Whether engaged, newlywed, or veteran, Real Marriage will serve as an invaluable resource. I highly recommend this book." --ANDY STANLEY author of The Grace of God and Senior Pastor, North Point Community Church "One of my greatest concerns is that culture is going to continually define and redefine what marriage is and is not, and the church is going to simply sit on the sidelines and react rather than seeking to actually become proactive by confidently teaching what the Bible has to say about it.  That is why I am so thankful that Mark and Grace Driscoll wrote this book.  Their approach to marriage, its benefits and challenges are transparent and challenging and I honestly believe that every married couple who will work through what they lead us through in this book will not just merely have a marriage that survives in this world but rather thrives in it." -- PERRY NOBLE Senior Pastor, NewSpring Church "Our thanks to Mark and Grace Driscoll who have served this generation well by tastefully but boldly addressing the real issues facing real marriages. Taking the unchanging truth of God's word and sprinkling in is the story of God's mercy in their own marriage they have filled every chapter with real helpfulness. This book is powerful, biblical, practical and healing for marriages that hurt. My wife and our adult children read it to great profit." -- DR. JAMES MACDONALD Senior Pastor, Harvest Bible Chapel and Bible teacher for Walk in the Word

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