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För in de döda (2012)

av Hilary Mantel

Andra författare: Hege Mehren (Översättare)

Andra författare: Se under Andra författare.

Serier: Wolf Hall Trilogy (2)

MedlemmarRecensionerPopularitetGenomsnittligt betygDiskussioner / Omnämnanden
5,7953221,354 (4.33)3 / 961
Året är nu 1535. Thomas Cromwell, smedens son, är Henrik VIII:s närmaste man. Hans stjärna har stigit jämte Anne Boleyns, hon som blev kungens andra hustru och för vars skull Henrik bröt med Rom. Men Henriks politik har isolerat England och Anne har misslyckats med det hon lovat sin make: att föda honom en son. När Henrik besöker godset Wolf Hall ser Cromwell hur den orolige kungen förälskar sig i den tysta och enkla Jane Seymour. Cromwell vet direkt vad han har att göra: få fram en »sanning« om Anne Boleyn som ger kungen giltigt skäl att skilja sig och ta sig en ny hustru. I För in de döda, den andra delen i den trilogi som inleddes med succén Wolf Hall, skildrar Hilary Mantel en av de mest mytomspunna och skrämmande episoderna i den engelska historien: krossandet av Anne Boleyn. Hilary Mantel, som har en lång rad uppmärksammade romaner bakom sig sen debuten 1985, har tilldelats Englands mest prestigefyllda pris, Man Booker, för både Wolf Hall och För in de döda. Det är unikt i prisets historia. Wolf Hall möttes med jubel av kritiken och blev i Sverige, liksom i övriga Europa, också en kommersiell framgång. [Publit]… (mer)
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engelska (314)  nederländska (4)  spanska (1)  franska (1)  tyska (1)  Alla språk (321)
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I was slogging my way through "Wolf Hall" early in 2015 trying to get through it before the Masterpiece Theater miniseries started and was able to finish it just before the first episode aired. I just could not keep the characters straight and who was talking and who was thinking what and it was all making no sense to me until about 2/3 of the way through everything "clicked". Then while the series was airing, I raced through "Bring Up the Bodies". Much more straightforwardly written, it is highly compelling, dramatic and almost impossible to put down. Maybe seeing the scenes portrayed by accomplished actors helped, but I kept re-reading major portions of BUTB for several weeks after finishing it. Waiting for Book 3 to see how it all ends for Cromwell. ( )
  Octavia78 | Nov 28, 2021 |
Why can't I use 6 stars, or 10, or 100? Hilary Mantel deserves every award she's won for this series (including the TWO Man Bookers), and everything else I tried to read last week seemed like a piece of crap -- the unfortunate downside to reading extraordinary fiction.

Simply can't wait for the next one! ( )
  FinallyJones | Nov 17, 2021 |
First, I want to apologize to anyone I annoyed by calling this book Bringing Up the Bodies--I only realized my error when I finally came across the phrase in the book.

I certainly sped through this one quicker than the previous one. I think the shorter time frame and tighter action may have helped, though I think I preferred the Cromwell of [b:Wolf Hall|6101138|Wolf Hall (Thomas Cromwell, #1)|Hilary Mantel|https://d202m5krfqbpi5.cloudfront.net/books/1336576165s/6101138.jpg|6278354] to this book. He seemed a bit more thoughtful...but also a bit more personable.

I find it interesting that I thought Cromwell was more "personable" in the previous book when he was being referred to at he even at the expense of clarity. As I said in my notes on that book, I saw the constant use of "he" as a sign of how Cromwell's history was mutable, dependent upon who he was talking to. In this book he's come into his own--frequently being set apart as "he, Cromwell" instead of just "he." Cromwell has become a person in and of the world, a name that's known and respected (well, that and I'm guessing Mantel got some grief over the stylistic grammar in the first book).

This "person" problem is a bit bigger than I'd realized. Now that I'm writing, I'm remembering a few occasions in Wolf Hall when the nobility described Cromwell (and, once Anne Boleyn) as a "person" using the word as an insult. Perhaps it's simply that in Bring up the Bodies he is no longer just another person at court--he didn't have family history as the nobility do to keep them from being just a person (they're always a Howard, or a Tudor, etc.), but now he's got about a decade (I think) of experience under his belt to give the Cromwell name some weight. He's no longer just any person--he's a recognizable figure to be reckoned with.

So...when does the third book come out? 8-)


Quote Roundup

(17-18) "They say that at Thomas More's trial, Master Secretary here followed the jury to their deliberations, and when they were seated he closed the door behind him and laid down the law. 'Let me put you out of doubt,' he said to the jurymen. 'Your task is to find Sir Thomas guilty, and you will have no dinner til you have done it.' Then out he went and shut the door again and stood outside it with a hatchet in his hand, in case they broke out in search of a boiled pudding; and being Londonders, they care about their bellies above all things, and as soon as they felt them rumbling they cried, 'Guilty! He is as guilty as guilty can be!'"

(64) The garzoni would say, Tommaso, how is it you got the wound on the back of the leg, were you running away? He would say, Mother of God, yes: I was only paid enough for running away, if you want me facing the front you have to pay me extra.

(65) He looks around him. All he has is the floor. This floor is his world. He is hungry, he is thirsty, he is over seven hundred miles from home. But this floor can be improved.

(69) According to the custodians of holy relics, part of the power of these artifacts is that they are able to multiply. Bone,wood and stone have, like animals, the ability to breed, yet keep their intact nature; the offspring are in no wise inferior to the originals. So the crown of thorns blossoms. The cross of Christ puts out buds; it flourishes, like a living tree. Christ's seamless coat weaves copies of itself. Nails give birth to nails.
[This is the first time I've seen this matter addressed, anywhere.]

(104) He sees that there is a camaraderie among men such as these, men who have lost out to the Boleyns: a defiant camaraderie, such as exists among those sectaries in Europe who are always expecting the end of the world, but who hope that, after the earth has been consumed by fire, they will be seated in glory: grilled a little, crisp at the edges and blackened in parts, but still, thanks be to God, alive for eternity, and seated at his right hand.

(162) - 'Gregory, what should I do about the [fictitious] great worm?'
- 'Send a commission against it, sir,' the boy says. 'It must be put down. Bishop Rowland Lee would go up against it. Or Fitz.'
He gives his son a long look. 'You do know it's Arthur's Cobbler's tales?'
- Gregory gives him a long look back. 'Yes, I do know.' He sounds regretful. 'But it makes people so happy when I believe them.'
[Gregory's such a good egg.]

(215) 'This Boleyn courtship, this Boleyn marriage. How did the king look, in the eyes of grown men? Like one who only studies his own pleasures. Like a child, that is to say. To be so impassioned, so enslaved by a woman, who after all is made just as other women are - some said it was unmanly. ... A man' - and Fitzwilliam stresses the word - 'a man should be governor of his passions.'

(280) When the cardinal fell, he had found posts for many of his poor servants, taking in some himself; if mark had been less insolent, he might have taken him in too. The he would not be a ruined being, as he is now. His affectations would have been kindly ridiculed, til he became more manly. ... He would [have] been shown how to make money for himself, and put in the way of a wife: instead of spending his best years snuffling and scraping outside the apartments of a king's wife, and having her jog his elbow and snap the feather in his hat.

(299) Something happens to Anne then, which later he will not quite understand. She seems to dissolve and slip from their grasp, from Kingston's hands and his, she seems to liquefy and elude them, and when she resolves herself once more into woman's form she is on hands and knees on the cobbles, her had thrown back, wailing.

(306) - 'This business you get up to with doors. ... The way you hold the door still and slide yourself around it.'
- 'You told me to be discrete.' Jane lowers her eyes, to show him what discretion means. ...
- 'Do you know what I think,' he says. 'I think that from now on Jane won't be opening her own doors, so it doesn't matter.'
- 'My belief is,' Edward says, 'this modesty could pall. Look up at me, Jane. I want to see your expression.'
- 'But what makes you think,' Jane murmurs, 'that I want to see yours?'

(310) - 'I was listening to Master Secretary,' Jane says. 'One can learn a great deal from him.'
- 'Hardly apt lessons for you,' Edward Seymour says.
- 'I don't know. Ten years in the train of Master Secretary, and I might learn to stand up for myself."
- 'Your happy destiny,' says Edward, 'is to be a queen, not a clerk.'
- 'So do you,' Jane says, 'give thanks to God I was born a woman?'
- 'We thank God on our knees daily,' Tom Seymour says, with leaden gallantry. It is new to him, to have this meek sister require compliments, and he is not swift to respond.

(345) But then she raises her hands and clasps them at her breast, in the gesture Lady Rochford had showed him. Ah, Queen Ester, he thinks. She is not innocent; she can only mimic innocence. ... He knows her for a woman without remorse. He believes she would commit any sin or crime. He believes she is her father's daughter, that never since childhood has she taken any action, coaxed or coerced, that might damage her own interests. But in one gesture, she has damaged them now.

(352) His whole career had been an education in hypocrisy. Eyes that once skewered him now kindle with simulated regard. Hands that would like to knock his hat off now reach to take his hand, sometimes in a crushing grip. He has spun his enemies to face him, to join him: as in a dance. He means to spin them away again, so they look down the long cold vista of their years: so they feel the wind, the wind of exposed places, that cuts to the bone: so they bed down in ruins, and wake up cold.

(385) 'I thought he loved her. I thought there was no estrangement between them, up until the last. I am forced to think I don't know anything. Not about men. Not about women. Not about faith, nor the faith of others. She said to me, 'Shall I go to Heaven? Because I have done many good deeds in my time. ... She talks of works.' Cranmer shakes his head. 'She says nothing of faith. And I hoped she understood, as I now understand, that we are saved, not by our own works, but only through Christ's sacrifice, and through his merits, not our own.'

(399) He is used to seeing Rafe most days and he cannot get used to the new order of things. He keeps expecting to hear his voice, and to hear him and Richard, and Gregory when he is at home, scuffling in corners and trying to push each other downstairs, hiding behind doors to jump on each other, doing all those tricks that even men of twenty-five or thirty do when they think their grave elders are not nearby.

(399) - 'I stand, sir, as if upon a headland, my back to the sea, and below me a burning plain. ... I smell burning buildngs,' he says. 'Fallen towers. Indeed there is nothing but ash. Wreckage.'
- 'But it's useful wreckage, isn't it?' Wreckage can be fashioned into all sorts of things: ask any dweller on the sea shore. ( )
  books-n-pickles | Oct 29, 2021 |
Mantel is always amazing. ( )
  PNWGirl | Sep 21, 2021 |
3.6 stars. I was super charmed by Thomas C in the first book and I think the author was too. At least with this conjured character who combines strategy and restraint and a forbidding exterior with a warm heart for his children, mentees and allies.

But when TC, as the king's agent, moves against Anne Boleyn and her family it becomes harder to love him. It shouldn't be any different from his actions condemning Thomas More and Bishop Fisher and the others who stood in the way of the King's annulment to allow his marriage with Anne. And yet it seems much more dangerous this time around.

What is truth and who can tell what is right? Henry Tudor is a slippery, selfish, changeable judge. As the author says in the first book, you pick your prince and then you serve him, whatever he asks you to accomplish. ( )
  Je9 | Aug 10, 2021 |
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Here, as elsewhere, Mantel’s real triumph is her narrative language. It’s not the musty Olde English of so much historical fiction, but neither is it quite contemporary. The Latinate “exsanguinates” is a perfect 16th-century touch, and so is that final, Anglo-Saxon “gore.” In some of her books, Mantel is pretty scabrous in her descriptions of present-day England, its tawdriness and cheesiness and weakness for cliché and prettifying euphemism. “Bring Up the Bodies” (the title refers to the four men executed for supposedly sleeping with Anne) isn’t nostalgic, exactly, but it’s astringent and purifying, stripping away the cobwebs and varnish of history, the antique formulations and brocaded sentimentality of costume-­drama novels, so that the English past comes to seem like something vivid, strange and brand new.
 
Geen gehijg tussen de lakens in Bring up the bodies (Het boek Henry), geen hete kussen bij maanlicht. Toch is Hilary Mantels versie van de perikelen van de Tudors de meest opwindende ooit.
 
Is Bring Up the Bodies better than, worse than or equal to Wolf Hall? While lacking, necessarily, the shocking freshness of the first book, it is narrower, tighter, at times a more brilliant and terrifying novel. Of her historical interpretations, Mantel says in her afterword that she is "making the reader a proposal, an offer", but what is striking is how little concerned she is with the reader. Her prose makes no concessions to the disorientated: a moment's distraction and you have to start the page again. Mantel, like Cromwell, seems not to mind if we are there or not: she is writing, as he was living, for herself alone.
 
"Mantel knows what to select, how to make her scenes vivid, how to kindle her characters."
tillagd av bookfitz | ändraThe New Yorker, James Wood (May 7, 2012)
 
We read historical fiction for the same reason we keep watching Hamlet: it's not what, it's how. And although we know the plot, the characters themselves do not. Mantel leaves Cromwell at a moment that would appear secure: four of his ill-wishing enemies, in addition to Anne, have just been beheaded, and many more have been neutralised. England will have peace, though it's "the peace of the hen coop when the fox has run home". But really Cromwell is balancing on a tightrope, with his enemies gathering and muttering offstage. The book ends as it begins, with an image of blood-soaked feathers.

But its end is not an end. "There are no endings," says Mantel. "If you think so you are deceived as to their nature. They are all beginnings. This is one." Which will lead us to the final instalment, and to the next batch of Henry's wives and Cromwell's machinations. How much intricate spadework will it take to "dig out" Cromwell, that "sleek, plump, and densely inaccessible" enigma? Reader, wait and see.
 

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Författarens namnRollTyp av författareVerk?Status
Mantel, Hilaryprimär författarealla utgåvorbekräftat
Mehren, HegeÖversättaremedförfattarealla utgåvorbekräftat
Pracher, RickOmslagsformgivaremedförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
Vance, SimonBerättaremedförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
Willems, IneÖversättaremedförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
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"Am I not a man like other men? Am I not? Am I not?"

Henry VIII to Eustache Chapuys, Imperial Ambassador
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What is the nature of the border between truth and lies?...Truth can break the gates down, truth can howl in the street; unless truth is pleasing, personable and easy to like, she is condemned to stay whimpering at the back door.
[The Italians] say the road between England and Hell is worn bare from treading feet, and runs downhill all the way.
You can be merry with the king, you can share a joke with him. But as Thomas More used to say, it's like sporting with a tamed lion. You tousle its mane and pull its ears, but all the time you're thinking, those claws, those claws, those claws.
You have always regarded women as disposable, my lord, and you cannot complain if in the end they think the same of you.
These light nights find him at his desk. Paper is precious. Its offcuts and remnants are not discarded, but turned over, reused. Often he takes up an old letter-book and finds the jottings of chancellors long dust, of bishop-ministers now cold under inscriptions of their merits.
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Wikipedia på engelska (1)

Året är nu 1535. Thomas Cromwell, smedens son, är Henrik VIII:s närmaste man. Hans stjärna har stigit jämte Anne Boleyns, hon som blev kungens andra hustru och för vars skull Henrik bröt med Rom. Men Henriks politik har isolerat England och Anne har misslyckats med det hon lovat sin make: att föda honom en son. När Henrik besöker godset Wolf Hall ser Cromwell hur den orolige kungen förälskar sig i den tysta och enkla Jane Seymour. Cromwell vet direkt vad han har att göra: få fram en »sanning« om Anne Boleyn som ger kungen giltigt skäl att skilja sig och ta sig en ny hustru. I För in de döda, den andra delen i den trilogi som inleddes med succén Wolf Hall, skildrar Hilary Mantel en av de mest mytomspunna och skrämmande episoderna i den engelska historien: krossandet av Anne Boleyn. Hilary Mantel, som har en lång rad uppmärksammade romaner bakom sig sen debuten 1985, har tilldelats Englands mest prestigefyllda pris, Man Booker, för både Wolf Hall och För in de döda. Det är unikt i prisets historia. Wolf Hall möttes med jubel av kritiken och blev i Sverige, liksom i övriga Europa, också en kommersiell framgång. [Publit]

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