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Either/or av Søren Kierkegaard
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Either/or (utgåvan 1959)

av Søren Kierkegaard

MedlemmarRecensionerPopularitetGenomsnittligt betygOmnämnanden
1,921168,574 (3.91)17
In Either/Or, using the voices of two characters--the aesthetic young man of part one, called simply "A," and the ethical Judge Vilhelm of the second section--Kierkegaard reflects upon the search for a meaningful existence, contemplating subjects as diverse as Mozart, drama, boredom, and, in the famous Seducer's Diary, the cynical seduction and ultimate rejection of a young, beautiful woman. A masterpiece of duality, Either/Or is a brilliant exploration of the conflict between the aesthetic and the ethical - both meditating ironically and seductively upon Epicurean pleasures, and eloquently expounding the noble virtues of a morally upstanding life. For more than seventy years, Penguin has been the leading publisher of classic literature in the English-speaking world. With more than 1,700 titles, Penguin Classics represents a global bookshelf of the best works throughout history and across genres and disciplines. Readers trust the series to provide authoritative texts enhanced by introductions and notes by distinguished scholars and contemporary authors, as well as up-to-date translations by award-winning translators.… (mer)
Medlem:EverettWiggins
Titel:Either/or
Författare:Søren Kierkegaard
Info:Garden City, N.Y., Doubleday, 1959.
Samlingar:Ditt bibliotek
Betyg:
Taggar:Ingen/inga

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Antingen - eller : ett livsfragment av Søren Kierkegaard (Author)

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engelska (14)  nederländska (1)  tyska (1)  Alla språk (16)
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100 KIE 6
  luvucenanzo06 | Sep 7, 2023 |
To make a historical comment about a philosophical book, I think that A is largely the same in the 1840s and today. A is not an early Victorian stereotype; he’s restless. Restless. It’s the same basic type as some people are today. It’s almost physiological.

B is different, I think. B has changed. Not all Bs have changed in the same way, but there’s been a bifurcation. Some Bs are feminists, and some are not. But at the risk of turning a continuum into a dualism, you have to choose. You can’t have the blissful ignorance of the 1840s anymore, when there was just a hint of tag-along feminism, and little of that—no feminist challenge. Now Bs have to choose between the ignorance and the bliss. The two paths have separated.

…. But A is much better than I expected. In a way he’s ill, but he’s no Giant Ant, who is so throughly ill and stupid that it’s all a waste; sometimes someone can be ill and hurting themselves and not to be heeded, and yet in a way, in their own way, what they say is true; at least, it would be difficult to persuade, even in all the best conditions, external And internal, and just as bad to answer them brusquely, at least as bad. (All that humbug about telling girls not to associate with the nefarious A, ah! Lordy!)

…. But I suppose I am biased—despite being perfect (you have to round up from 82.3 to 100.) A is different too. A is an elitist, I suppose you could say, which is not how people imagine themselves to be now.

…. A is very different. “All equally classic”. What a strange idea! Have you no preference? Are you a classics-appreciating machine, totally objective? Very elitist/bizarre. Of course, anti-elitist recentism is also bizarre. I suppose that, in theory, both ideas (elitism/anti-elitism) have equal Potential for absurdity, but in practice all ill ideas are not equally bizarre. That would be strange. (La!)

Of course, A and I are also different because A is a sensual elitist—pillow talk about Mozart with somebody else’s wife—and I try to be a moderately popular (NOT populist) non-sensualist. (The talking duck wants you to know that we can All be Nice!)

But I never expected to like A.

…. I could say a lot about A: sub-Christian elitist, just to be nice—but I’ll try not to add another paragraph about A every time he writes ten pages, since it’s such a long book. Obviously SK is not A, although many people like A better than B…. It would be easy to torment you, know—tormentor! tormentor! Away with him!—so I’ll try to be indirect and just say that people can be very dissociative about school-books, let’s say, and more to the point…. I mean, dealing with something as superficial as seduction or whatever A calls it—he has about five different terms for sleeping with five girls in three nights, and I think his time could be better spent—what matters to the eye is appearance, in that time as now, the country or region of origin…. That’s why I stopped being an aesthete, because it’s so ugly, although that’s a different story. But the real ugliness of A is that he is selling—oh! Selling!—that he talks like a blue-eyed Dane, even though his game is that, according to all modern mythology, he doesn’t Act like a blue-eyed Dane, if you know what I mean…. Although I’ll admit, it is quite tangled. —I’m so good at it! (Better than you!) Although, unlike you, I don’t dare! (I wouldn’t, dare!)

You may proceed to tell me that you are a citizen of the world, and beyond all cultural constructs, now. 🥸

…. And Title Character Man is life himself, because he is more important than the women he seduces. (He steals their life-force!) I mean. He’s absolutely musical. I love music. “You take a piece of whatever you touch. Too many pieces means you’re touching too much.” (Billy Joel).

Ok, I’ll go back to sleep now.

…. Obviously I don’t use a style like Soren’s, but it is true that sometimes there is a choice between sorrow and pain. I used to reject sorrow, and I felt great pain; now I relax into sorrow, and I feel, essentially very little pain. People think you can thump sorrow on the nose, you know, and that that will make you happy.

…. A “man” (not strange or ambiguous for the man of the 1840s) loves because of pleasure and because he is a “slave to the sound” (Haim); a “woman” loves because that’s her identity, which is of course something that sounds very fine, much like loving your country sounds fine and grand, you know. It is still nice to understand though, since most change since the 1840s has been essentially superficial.

…. I guess that like most seducers, A is miserable…. How prettily he does unhappiness though. (I just had to go downstairs to eat, this frontiersman vs terrorists movie was on. At least A isn’t a frontiersman, you know; people can’t be all bad things simultaneously right.) I guess at times A even knows useful things, although apparently he hasn’t used them, you know.

…. I guess that sin is a mystery, because everything is a mystery…. Knowledge DOES perish, (‘and in that day his thoughts perish’ Bible), and in a way it should, so it IS true that we should forget, that there is a way to forget and a way in which it is sometimes right…. But we should not forget like seducers do! 0.o

…. Naughty Austen. 0.o

As for me though, I find it makes little difference whether I isolate my fantasies in my head without outside input, (although my fantasies are still bloody and Greek, late comes that Naughty Austen that Pommie (Pomona) might like, mostly it is a matter of Diana and Homer), or try to explore what other girls’ output is like, which in the end just impresses on me again the fact that other people are crazy too…. Really I must consent to surrender all this, to just agree to sit still—it is not pleasant, but in the end, the other resolution, whether in the head or in the eyes, is not pleasant either…. It is not quite satisfying, and then one remembers being vain, or others being othered, and it is Un-pleasant, you know.

Of course, to be hostile to it is the other side of the coin; to be naughty Austen is not such a bad thing from the depths of the storm, though of course most romantics ought to go to some sort of meeting for false ideology, you know. “I suffer for you! Behold your Christ—me!” You know. And—I don’t know. “Ah yes, an artist, one of the Big Names, you know, Big big name in Denmark art.” *strolling through the art gallery* “Is that a big deal?” “*smoking indoors* Well, like Mozart said….” (starts quoting in Italian some ducking irrelevant thing).

But, I don’t know. At least Sorrie wouldn’t have to go to jail, you know! 🦕

…. Socialization must be so different without cars, right.

Although on the other hand, it’s just like that old midcentury song (covered by some new waver), You don’t really love me…. You just keep me hangin’ on. Right.

Sometimes beautiful people are useful for lust, but other times…. They just make you feel important, right. —Oh, see that beautiful person? I’m very important to her. I’m a very important person.

…. The seducer is certainly very slow and non-stereotypical. Not innocent, exactly, very twisted…. But enculturated very very differently from a contemporary American, from what we’re used to.

…. Sometimes the mind is no moderator; no milquetoast man is the schemer.

…. On the one hand—look, I’m like the girl—on the one hand, people often say that some things are better never begun than quit halfway through. In another way, he is in a way a better lover than I, for he is patient, more patient than me. Well, almost patient.

…. Wherever there’s separation, there’s no love—only master and slave.

He also should have had a normal, healthy, platonic friendship, this master-of-relationships…. Although, on the other hand, even Ted Bundy had a normal, healthy, platonic friend—Ann Rule, the writer. (Well, almost! Lol! It was healthy on Ann’s end, I guess. It’s a long story.)

…. Part B is better than I suspected it would be, although it is occasionally bad; but if it is often good or ambiguous, I still prefer my own response to A, which I take it could be a sort of abbreviated B(2), you know.

…. Something I wrote needs to change, though. In a way, it is true that, I think that in the “advance” or “ascent” to God, we eventually either feel less shame or act less shamefully when we sin—probably a bit of both, but who knows; yet like I said it is also true that sometimes we cannot express certain things well, in certain circumstances, so it is better not to express them at all, than to go on with harm reduction Forever. Much of religion isn’t helpful either way, incidentally, because it still sees virtue as the quest for power, often over others—it’s getting the women under—so they just lose their minds pretty much equally at trying to be good and suffering the bad, because you’ve gotta be like me, to hell with this other crap, you know.

And yet, if we believe in merit, sometimes we will merit heaven, and sometimes we will merit hell, so—we have to let go of our struggle for merit, not because all things are equally helpful, but because we have to be real about our limitations, and in that way receive virtue, our own virtue, that fits our circumstances better than the sorta Rube Goldberg solution we come up with on our own, and which we can only jimmy into workable efficiency with considerable strain. If you surrender to the Cross, you do not surrender your virtue, only this Rube Goldberg plan that cannot be relied upon when you feel ill.

…. But all this “necessary” rigidity in B, all the mask of infallibility, the pretense of invulnerability! By golly— strawberry fields forever! What does one say to it? Surely SOME marriages do NOT live up to the perfect juxtaposition of Good Marriage Love/Bad Pagan Love thing? Surely NOT ALL marriages are good? (Mr B admits this hastily in the beginning, and then builds up his argument on the idea that this reality has been forgotten.) Good strawberries—maybe A’s /parents/ didn’t have a perfect marriage, you know? Too bad Mr Perfect didn’t think of That!

(And was I the only one in the droning condemnation of ‘first love’ (non-marital, the beginning, the ‘fun love’), remembered the phrase, ‘You Have Forgotten Your First Love’—whoops, but what God /meant/ was, you know, Frighten yourself, by yourself, you know.)

…. Mr B does like to do his thing, but I suppose it is not necessarily inappropriate to ‘call a spade a spade’ if one isn’t merely venting; it is not necessarily inappropriate to tell a joker that life is not a package of trivialities.

Anyway, “Either/Or” is I think just as nice a piece of ‘practical’ philosophy—obviously not ‘practical’ in the DiscountDepartment sense, but, you know—as Plato’s Republic, even if they are not quite the same but neighboring countries~ the two sides of the ‘practical’ coin, if you like.

…. Of course, every now and again it is obvious that Mr B is, like essentially all Victorians, rather comically narrow-minded: a married Danish man writing to another Danish man, urging him to get married, and of course, we do not talk about the Norwegians because they are hicks, the slaves and the Americans do not really live in the world, the Jewish people are only Jews, after all, and the Catholics worship the pope, the Indians are foreign Orientals, the Greeks and the Germans are only heartless philosophers and the French abandon themselves to luxury, the mystics are weird and isolated, and the women are just plain different—but it remains, that, if you marry one, you might end up normal…. Of course, it is very subtle, and, you know, sometimes the subtle thoughts about God instead of the subtle rejection of the neighbor can be good. I myself do not always know quite what I think on some of these topics, which is why I have not bothered to defend myself from the well-adjusted, part-of-his-community married man specifically, but it is worth reading, if of course, quite long.

…. They are both rather extreme, (although I suppose that is to judge A and B and not Soren, for it is a work of art as well as of philosophy); Mr B is less extreme, and so is better, but his is a sort of extreme-moderation, more than moderation-in-all-things…. He is always trying to dim people’s fire a little bit; if you go out, you get all sexed up and kill girls~ and if you stay home and live in your mind, you isolate yourself and become a weirdo artist with no friends— so don’t do this, and don’t do that. Just try to stop being You, so much…. Although Mr A is on the road to go to hell or whatever, or perhaps to stand trial on charges of being a jackass, (everyone will hate him so much, they’ll just make something up)…. Of course, Mr B says that man must ‘choose himself’, which is a rather adorably under-emoted version of ‘loving yourself’ that ad-monkeys push on people now, (people always try to legislate whatever it is they imagine people want to do), so, I don’t know. He doesn’t literally say ‘just don’t be You so much’. It’s just that since he doesn’t approve of anything, that’s perhaps the effect. It’s a hard topic. It’s certainly different from something from after 1975 or after 1900, but it’s also rather better than /some/ of those later works.

…. But, Jane and the Brontes, I wonder if anybody still believes that horrible claptrap about how a man must marry or he’s bad, because it’s his duty as a philosopher to get a wife that’s not a philosopher so she can “prove” to him, with her cray house-craft skills, that he shouldn’t be a philosopher, (or he should, because he’s worthless, just like philosophy), and he can keep an eye on her to make sure she never makes a name for herself, or helps anybody who’s not a near blood relation…. Yes, people probably still believe it. The people who watched “How I Met Your Mother” probably believe it, and that was a relatively popular show. I believed it, like drunks believe in drink.

…. Not to target any specific part, but in general it certainly didn’t need to be longer, but in the abstract and in general it’s a very fine book, you know…. Certainly there’s an Either/Or of the 1840s, but there will also be an Either/Or in the future, right.

…. And maybe in the future, Beth March can give the sermon at the end. Lordy. 🤪

But, aside from the length, I would say that this piece is, like Plato’s Republic, (both of which end with the spiritual), a nice piece of practical philosophy, although of course it is practical in the philosophical sense, very little that is really worthwhile being practical in the DiscountDepartment sense. If it mattered what I thought, I’d think that for some people, it might make a fair introduction.
  goosecap | Feb 7, 2023 |
Essentially an argument that one should make a choice between the aesthetic way of life and the ethical way of life. Although as one reads deeply into the book he finds that the choice is not a simple one and the difficulties in discerning how to make the choice are manifold. This is not a book for the general or light reader, but one rather that rewards deep reading and thought about how one really should make choices in the direction of one's life. ( )
  jwhenderson | Oct 13, 2022 |
Il tema di questo classico del pensiero esistenzialistico, uscito nel 1843, è la scelta di fondo che la persona concreta deve compiere riguardo alla propria esperienza, alla propria direzione di vita. La scelta non è tra bene e male, ma tra la visione etica ed estetica della vita. Scelta molto concreta che riguarda il nostro modo di organizzare esperienze e sensazioni, al nostro modo di amare e di dar senso al nostro amore. La scelta etica è la scelta della continuità, del significato, della presenza riconoscibile del bene e del male. La scelta estetica costringe alla discontinuità, ad una vita senza significato perchè incapace di organizzarsi in valori assoluti. Il salto di qualità, dal quale deriva la necessità eroica dello scegliere, sarà la disperazione: una disperazione attiva, che nasce dalla constatata assoluta esigenza di valori eterni nei quali la effimera presenza dell'uomo acquista un senso definitivo. L'esteta difende la sua estrema precarietà sottraendosi, prima che alla scelta, a questa illuminante disperazione. La filosofia conosce pochi libri più felici di questo, scritto con estro dialettico e affascinante fervore morale, impetuoso e severo, ma anche affettuoso e cordiale. ( )
  AntonioGallo | Dec 19, 2020 |
I found this work quite engaging for a work of philosophy in a foreign language. There is a lot of characterization, the the premise, that either impulse, as shown by the imagined life of an "arty" artist, is king, or we live an life bound by rigorous adherence to a set of principles. the latter pattern is illustrated by a conversation with an imagined judge. The book was I hope well translated in the edition whose cover I have attached. ( )
  DinadansFriend | Oct 13, 2020 |
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Författarens namnRollTyp av författareVerk?Status
Kierkegaard, SørenFörfattareprimär författarealla utgåvorbekräftat
Gorey;, EdwardCover design and typographymedförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
Hannay, AlastairÖversättaremedförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
Hong, Edna H.Översättaremedförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
Hong, Howard V.Översättaremedförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
Johnson, Howard A.medförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
Lowrie, WalterÖversättaremedförfattarevissa utgåvorbekräftat
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In Either/Or, using the voices of two characters--the aesthetic young man of part one, called simply "A," and the ethical Judge Vilhelm of the second section--Kierkegaard reflects upon the search for a meaningful existence, contemplating subjects as diverse as Mozart, drama, boredom, and, in the famous Seducer's Diary, the cynical seduction and ultimate rejection of a young, beautiful woman. A masterpiece of duality, Either/Or is a brilliant exploration of the conflict between the aesthetic and the ethical - both meditating ironically and seductively upon Epicurean pleasures, and eloquently expounding the noble virtues of a morally upstanding life. For more than seventy years, Penguin has been the leading publisher of classic literature in the English-speaking world. With more than 1,700 titles, Penguin Classics represents a global bookshelf of the best works throughout history and across genres and disciplines. Readers trust the series to provide authoritative texts enhanced by introductions and notes by distinguished scholars and contemporary authors, as well as up-to-date translations by award-winning translators.

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